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Dude, I know. I've been implementing user interface toolkits since the early 80's, but I've still never heard of a "Tolkit", which you mentioned twice, so I ask

Dude, I know. I've been implementing user interface toolkits since the early 80's, but I've still never heard of a "Tolkit", which you mentioned twice, so I asked you what it was -- are you making a silly pun like "Tollkit" for "Toolkit" or "Lamework" for "Framework" or "Bloatif" for "Motif" and I'm missing it? No hits on urban dictionary, even. And also you still haven't explained whether I'm a revisionist or not. Just like you, I love to write articles about user interface stuff all the time, too. Just in the past week: My enthusiastic but balanced response to somebody who EMPHATICALLY DEMANDED PIE MENUS ONLY for GIMP, and who loves pie fly, but pushed my button by defending the name GIMP by insisting that instead of the GIMP project simply and finally conceding its name is offensive, that our entire society adapt by globally re-signifying a widely known offensive hurtful word (so I suggested he first go try re-signifying the n-word first, and see how that went): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38233793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38233793 (While I would give more weight to the claim that the name GIMP is actually all about re-signifying an offensive term if it came from a qualified and empathic and wheelchair using interface designer like Haraldur Ingi Þorleifsson, I doubt that’s actually the real reason, just like it’s not white people’s job to re-signify the n-word by saying it all the time...) Meet the man who is making Iceland wheelchair accessible one ramp at a time: https://scoop.upworthy.com/meet-the-man-who-is-making-iceland-wheelchair-accessible https://scoop.upworthy.com/meet-the-man-who-is-making-icelan... Elon Musk apologises after mocking laid-off Twitter worker, questioning his disability: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-08/elon-musk-haraldur-thorleifsson-twitter-argument-disability/102069040 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-08/elon-musk-haraldur-th... The article about redesigning GIMP we were discussing credited Blender with being the first to show what mouse buttons do what at the bottom of the screen, which actually the Lisp Machine deserves credit for, as far as I know: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38237231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38237231 I made a joke about how telling GIMP developers to make it more like Photoshop was like telling RMS to develop Open Software for Linux, instead of Free Software for GNU/Linux, and somebody took the bait so I flamed about the GIMP developer’s lack of listening skills: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38238274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38238274 Somebody used the phrase "Easy as pie” in a discussion about user interface design so I had to chime in: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38239113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38239113 Discussion about HTML Web Components, in which I confess my secret affair with XML, XSLT, obsolete proprietary Microsoft technologies, and Punkemon pie menus: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38253752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38253752 Deep interesting discussion about Blender 4.0 release notes, focusing on its historic development and its developer’s humility and openness to its users’ suggestions, in which I commented on its excellent Python integration. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38263171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38263171 Comment on how Blender earned its loads of money and support by being responsive to its users. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38232404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38232404 Dark puns about user interface toolkits and a cheap shot at Motif, with an analogy between GIMP and Blender: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38263088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38263088 A content warning to a parent who wanted to know which videos their 8-year-old should watch on YouTube to learn Blender: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38288629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38288629 Posing with a cement garden gnome flipping the bird with Chris Toshok and Miguel de Icaza and his mom at GDC2010: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=299606531754&set=a.51733291754 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=299606531754&set=a.5173... https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=299606491754&set=a.51733291754 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=299606491754&set=a.5173... https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=299606436754&set=a.51733291754 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=299606436754&set=a.5173...

vore 3y ago
It was clearly a typo you could choose to ignore charitably instead of nitpick. Also, what is the rest of this comment and how is it related to GTK?
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  Because he was incorrectly nitpicking himself, and was wrong to call somebody else a revisionist without citing any proof, while he was factually incorrect himself, and offering an appeal to authority of himself as a writer and "random Gtkmm contributor" instead. I too have lots of strong opinions about GTK, GNOME, and GIMP, so I am happy for the opportunity to write them up, summarize them, and share them. You'll have to read the rest of the comment and follow the links to know what it says, because I already wrote and summarized it, and don't want to write it again just for you, because I don't believe you'd read it a second time if you didn't read it the first time. Just use ChatGPT, dude. Then you will see that it has a lot to do with GTK and GNOME and GIMP, even including exclusive photos of Miguel de Icaza and his mom with a garden gnome flipping the bird.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Oopsie I touched a nerve.
    - DonHopkins 3y ago
      You HAD to mention MOTIF! ;) There's a reason I call it BLOATIF and SLOWTIF... https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398ebd47#8909 https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398... >The Motif Self-Abuse Kit >X gave Unix vendors something they had professed to want for years: a standard that allowed programs built for different computers to interoperate. But it didn’t give them enough. X gave programmers a way to display windows and pixels, but it didn’t speak to buttons, menus, scroll bars, or any of the other necessary elements of a graphical user interface. Programmers invented their own. Soon the Unix community had six or so different interface standards. A bunch of people who hadn’t written 10 lines of code in as many years set up shop in a brick building in Cambridge, Massachusetts, that was the former home of a failed computer company and came up with a “solution:” the Open Software Foundation’s Motif. >What Motif does is make Unix slow. Real slow. A stated design goal of Motif was to give the X Window System the window management capabilities of HP’s circa-1988 window manager and the visual elegance of Microsoft Windows. We kid you not. >Recipe for disaster: start with the Microsoft Windows metaphor, which was designed and hand coded in assembler. Build something on top of three or four layers of X to look like Windows. Call it “Motif.” Now put two 486 boxes side by side, one running Windows and one running Unix/Motif. Watch one crawl. Watch it wither. Watch it drop faster than the putsch in Russia. Motif can’t compete with the Macintosh OS or with DOS/Windows as a delivery platform.

vore 3y ago

It was clearly a typo you could choose to ignore charitably instead of nitpick. Also, what is the rest of this comment and how is it related to GTK?

DonHopkins 3y ago
Because he was incorrectly nitpicking himself, and was wrong to call somebody else a revisionist without citing any proof, while he was factually incorrect himself, and offering an appeal to authority of himself as a writer and "random Gtkmm contributor" instead. I too have lots of strong opinions about GTK, GNOME, and GIMP, so I am happy for the opportunity to write them up, summarize them, and share them. You'll have to read the rest of the comment and follow the links to know what it says, because I already wrote and summarized it, and don't want to write it again just for you, because I don't believe you'd read it a second time if you didn't read it the first time. Just use ChatGPT, dude. Then you will see that it has a lot to do with GTK and GNOME and GIMP, even including exclusive photos of Miguel de Icaza and his mom with a garden gnome flipping the bird.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Oopsie I touched a nerve.
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    You HAD to mention MOTIF! ;) There's a reason I call it BLOATIF and SLOWTIF... https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398ebd47#8909 https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398... >The Motif Self-Abuse Kit >X gave Unix vendors something they had professed to want for years: a standard that allowed programs built for different computers to interoperate. But it didn’t give them enough. X gave programmers a way to display windows and pixels, but it didn’t speak to buttons, menus, scroll bars, or any of the other necessary elements of a graphical user interface. Programmers invented their own. Soon the Unix community had six or so different interface standards. A bunch of people who hadn’t written 10 lines of code in as many years set up shop in a brick building in Cambridge, Massachusetts, that was the former home of a failed computer company and came up with a “solution:” the Open Software Foundation’s Motif. >What Motif does is make Unix slow. Real slow. A stated design goal of Motif was to give the X Window System the window management capabilities of HP’s circa-1988 window manager and the visual elegance of Microsoft Windows. We kid you not. >Recipe for disaster: start with the Microsoft Windows metaphor, which was designed and hand coded in assembler. Build something on top of three or four layers of X to look like Windows. Call it “Motif.” Now put two 486 boxes side by side, one running Windows and one running Unix/Motif. Watch one crawl. Watch it wither. Watch it drop faster than the putsch in Russia. Motif can’t compete with the Macintosh OS or with DOS/Windows as a delivery platform.