6 ms·

Melodrama has no place in the AI utopia.

by uoaei 3y ago

mcpackieh 3y ago
The only thing utopian ideologies are good for is finding 'justifications' for murder. The "AI utopia" will be no different. De-radicalize yourself while you still can.
- passwordoops 3y ago
  Utopian ideologies are also useful when raising funds from SoftBank and ARK
- concordDance 3y ago
  > The only thing utopian ideologies are good for is finding 'justifications' for murder. This seems more like your personal definition of "utopian ideology" than an actual observation of the world we live in.
  - ddj231 3y ago
    It seems like an observation to me. Let’s take the Marxist utopian ideology. It led to 40 - 60 million dead in the Soviet Union (Gulag Archipelago is an eye opening read). And 40 - 80 million dead in Mao Zedong’s China. It’s hard to even wrap my mind around that amount of people dead. Then a smaller example in Matthia’s cult in the “Kingdom Of Matthias” book. Started around the same time as Mormonism. Which led to a murder. Or the Peoples Temple cult with 909 dead in mass suicide. The communal aspects of these give away their “utopian ideology” I’d like to hear where you’re coming from. I have a Christian worldview, so when I look at these movements it seems they have an obvious presupposition on human nature (that with the right systems in place people will act perfectly — so it is the systems that are flawed not the people themselves). Utopia is inherently religious, and I’d say it is the human desire to have heaven on earth — but gone about in the wrong ways. Because humans are flawed, no economic system or communal living in itself can bring about the utopian ideal.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      Kibbutz?
    - concordDance 3y ago
      You could also credit Marxism for workers rights. Having utopian ideologies NEVER doing good in the world would require some very careful boundary drawing.
    - kelseyfrog 3y ago
      Huh, I've read Marx and I dont see the utopianism you're referencing. What I do see is "classism is the biggest humanitarian crisis of our age," and "solving the class problem will improve people's lives," but no where do I see that non-class problem will cease to exist. People will still fight, get upset, struggle, just not on class terms. Maybe you read a different set of Marx's writing. Share your reading list if possible.
      - ddj231 3y ago
        This article gives a clear view on Marx’s vs. Engel’s view of Utopianism vs. other utopian socialists [1]. That Marx was not opposed to utopianism per se, but rather when the ideas of the utopia did not come from the proletariat. Yet you’re right in that he was opposed to the view of the other utopian socialist, and there is tension in the views of the different socialist thinkers in that time. (I do disagree on the idea that refusing to propose an ideal negates one from in practice having a utopic vision) That said my comment was looking mainly at the result of Marxist ideology in practice. In practice millions of lives were lost in an attempt to create an idealized world. Here is a good paper on Stalin’s utopian ideal [2]. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/chro17958.7?searchText=Marx+and+Utopia&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DMarx%2Band%2BUtopia&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Abf3b1ba8011e648925eb533b8e71589e&seq=6 https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/chro17958.7?searchText=... [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/3143688?seq=1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/3143688?seq=1
        kelseyfrog 3y ago

Melodrama has no place in the AI utopia.

by uoaei 3y ago

Melodrama has no place in the AI utopia.

The only thing utopian ideologies are good for is finding 'justifications' for murder. The "AI utopia" will be no different. De-radicalize yourself while you still can.

passwordoops 3y ago
Utopian ideologies are also useful when raising funds from SoftBank and ARK
concordDance 3y ago
> The only thing utopian ideologies are good for is finding 'justifications' for murder. This seems more like your personal definition of "utopian ideology" than an actual observation of the world we live in.
- ddj231 3y ago
  It seems like an observation to me. Let’s take the Marxist utopian ideology. It led to 40 - 60 million dead in the Soviet Union (Gulag Archipelago is an eye opening read). And 40 - 80 million dead in Mao Zedong’s China. It’s hard to even wrap my mind around that amount of people dead. Then a smaller example in Matthia’s cult in the “Kingdom Of Matthias” book. Started around the same time as Mormonism. Which led to a murder. Or the Peoples Temple cult with 909 dead in mass suicide. The communal aspects of these give away their “utopian ideology” I’d like to hear where you’re coming from. I have a Christian worldview, so when I look at these movements it seems they have an obvious presupposition on human nature (that with the right systems in place people will act perfectly — so it is the systems that are flawed not the people themselves). Utopia is inherently religious, and I’d say it is the human desire to have heaven on earth — but gone about in the wrong ways. Because humans are flawed, no economic system or communal living in itself can bring about the utopian ideal.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    Kibbutz?
  - concordDance 3y ago
    You could also credit Marxism for workers rights. Having utopian ideologies NEVER doing good in the world would require some very careful boundary drawing.
  - kelseyfrog 3y ago
    Huh, I've read Marx and I dont see the utopianism you're referencing. What I do see is "classism is the biggest humanitarian crisis of our age," and "solving the class problem will improve people's lives," but no where do I see that non-class problem will cease to exist. People will still fight, get upset, struggle, just not on class terms. Maybe you read a different set of Marx's writing. Share your reading list if possible.
    - ddj231 3y ago
      This article gives a clear view on Marx’s vs. Engel’s view of Utopianism vs. other utopian socialists [1]. That Marx was not opposed to utopianism per se, but rather when the ideas of the utopia did not come from the proletariat. Yet you’re right in that he was opposed to the view of the other utopian socialist, and there is tension in the views of the different socialist thinkers in that time. (I do disagree on the idea that refusing to propose an ideal negates one from in practice having a utopic vision) That said my comment was looking mainly at the result of Marxist ideology in practice. In practice millions of lives were lost in an attempt to create an idealized world. Here is a good paper on Stalin’s utopian ideal [2]. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/chro17958.7?searchText=Marx+and+Utopia&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DMarx%2Band%2BUtopia&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Abf3b1ba8011e648925eb533b8e71589e&seq=6 https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/chro17958.7?searchText=... [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/3143688?seq=1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/3143688?seq=1
      - kelseyfrog 3y ago