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Good luck. Since you want brutal feedback, at this early stage, it looks boring and tedious to enter data. I’d concentrate on the course output and define the i

Good luck. Since you want brutal feedback, at this early stage, it looks boring and tedious to enter data. I’d concentrate on the course output and define the input format as JSON or CSV. Why? Duolingo isn’t great because of the content, but because of great navigation (and points gamification) so the courses should work great on small touch screens. How to get the data is is something to worry about once the interface for the learner is good. Also, it’s easier to get formatted course input, because you can just ask chatgpt to generate learning material in a specific format. (For my own out of Duolingo experience I do exactly that: I defined a learning csv format and ask chatgpt to give me learning examples in this format) - also I’d stay away from animating images unless you get good at it, because animations distract from learning (and duolingo is turning into an animation studio and spending the resources to get animation right, so anything you can do with low budget is going to look cheap)

ceolin 3y ago
Very good points, thank you! Yeah, I played a little bit with animations but I didn't manage to make them right. I think I kept one when the lesson is completed but I recognize it's really bad. I think I'm going to remove it. Totally agree I need to focus more on the course output and overall learner experience.
ben_w 3y ago
> Duolingo isn’t great because of the content, but because of great navigation (and points gamification) so the courses should work great on small touch screens. How to get the data is is something to worry about once the interface for the learner is good. Counterpoint: twee gamification getting in the way of learning is why I stopped using Duolingo after reaching a 2500 day streak — the last straw was the tree turning into a path at the end of last year, but the last time I really enjoyed it was back when I could load each lesson into a separate tab and just spend hours at a time in the zone without getting distracted by their attempts to cheer me on. Similar direction of changes are now actively annoying me with Brilliant.org
- atomicfiredoll 3y ago
  Same, that plus the persistent harassment. Personally, I'm skeptical that Duo in it's current format is designed to teach. The goal seems to be giving the impression you're learning so you but into micro transactions. I've seen people with multi year steaks who struggle with the target language and clearly would have been better served via another approach. Maybe it's the course design, maybe the lack of supporting material, or some other weakness in the platform itself. But, I left out of frustration and started building Anki decks so I could have more control. As I'm now on my own, I've had to find supporting materials, which highlighted how poor Duo's explanations can be. That last part comes down to the course design. Hopefully OP's platform doesn't force designing ineffective courses. This isn't my area of expertise, but I think it's important to recognize that adult learners can have different goals, even within something like learning a language (e.g. speaking, writing, accent, etc.)
  - atomicfiredoll 3y ago
    Just a tangential shower thought on gamification. I found myself skipping Duo on weeknights so I could cram on the weekend, get matched with procrastinators, and ascend the leaderboard easier. I've heard other reports of people focusing on the game and not their goals. Game designers are aware that humans will "optimize the fun away." In the case of Duo, it seems a group of users will optimize the learning away (regardless of the goals or intention)
  - bavarianbob 3y ago
    I unironically believe that Duolingo is a pacifier that makes you feel good. It's goal is to maximize engagement, not help you learn a language. This is coming from someone who has spent a considerable amount of time on the platform, maxing two different language trees and am currently unable to speak a lick of either of those languages.
    - lucb1e 3y ago
      Yes and no. It is a great pacifier, but my grandma of nearly 90 years old also legitimately understands any english that comes her way much better after doing that on duolingo for a few months. She enjoys it greatly, I do not understand how with all the advertisements and ten types of currencies/points/lives that I cannot make heads or tails of but she likes it. Especially the animations, she often remarks how cute they are and wants to show us. It's adorable and I'm super happy for her :) though also disappointed that, when I installed duolingo for her, it wasn't the innocent learning app with good UX that I knew it as from like six years earlier
Garlef 3y ago
My thoughts exactly. I watched the video but all I saw was a lengthy click-process. The key feature is usage, not creation. (Sidenote: I agree - Most future tools will profit from a having a JSON-like DSL that is amenable to be fed by content coming from LLMs)
deleted 3y ago
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ceolin 3y ago

Very good points, thank you! Yeah, I played a little bit with animations but I didn't manage to make them right. I think I kept one when the lesson is completed but I recognize it's really bad. I think I'm going to remove it. Totally agree I need to focus more on the course output and overall learner experience.

ben_w 3y ago

> Duolingo isn’t great because of the content, but because of great navigation (and points gamification) so the courses should work great on small touch screens. How to get the data is is something to worry about once the interface for the learner is good. Counterpoint: twee gamification getting in the way of learning is why I stopped using Duolingo after reaching a 2500 day streak — the last straw was the tree turning into a path at the end of last year, but the last time I really enjoyed it was back when I could load each lesson into a separate tab and just spend hours at a time in the zone without getting distracted by their attempts to cheer me on. Similar direction of changes are now actively annoying me with Brilliant.org

atomicfiredoll 3y ago
Same, that plus the persistent harassment. Personally, I'm skeptical that Duo in it's current format is designed to teach. The goal seems to be giving the impression you're learning so you but into micro transactions. I've seen people with multi year steaks who struggle with the target language and clearly would have been better served via another approach. Maybe it's the course design, maybe the lack of supporting material, or some other weakness in the platform itself. But, I left out of frustration and started building Anki decks so I could have more control. As I'm now on my own, I've had to find supporting materials, which highlighted how poor Duo's explanations can be. That last part comes down to the course design. Hopefully OP's platform doesn't force designing ineffective courses. This isn't my area of expertise, but I think it's important to recognize that adult learners can have different goals, even within something like learning a language (e.g. speaking, writing, accent, etc.)
- atomicfiredoll 3y ago
  Just a tangential shower thought on gamification. I found myself skipping Duo on weeknights so I could cram on the weekend, get matched with procrastinators, and ascend the leaderboard easier. I've heard other reports of people focusing on the game and not their goals. Game designers are aware that humans will "optimize the fun away." In the case of Duo, it seems a group of users will optimize the learning away (regardless of the goals or intention)
- bavarianbob 3y ago
  I unironically believe that Duolingo is a pacifier that makes you feel good. It's goal is to maximize engagement, not help you learn a language. This is coming from someone who has spent a considerable amount of time on the platform, maxing two different language trees and am currently unable to speak a lick of either of those languages.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    Yes and no. It is a great pacifier, but my grandma of nearly 90 years old also legitimately understands any english that comes her way much better after doing that on duolingo for a few months. She enjoys it greatly, I do not understand how with all the advertisements and ten types of currencies/points/lives that I cannot make heads or tails of but she likes it. Especially the animations, she often remarks how cute they are and wants to show us. It's adorable and I'm super happy for her :) though also disappointed that, when I installed duolingo for her, it wasn't the innocent learning app with good UX that I knew it as from like six years earlier

Garlef 3y ago

My thoughts exactly. I watched the video but all I saw was a lengthy click-process. The key feature is usage, not creation. (Sidenote: I agree - Most future tools will profit from a having a JSON-like DSL that is amenable to be fed by content coming from LLMs)

deleted 3y ago

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