5 ms·

> Thankfully M$ didn't have control of the board You never know. Remember Nokia?

by two_in_one 3y ago

smilespray 3y ago
That still pisses me off.
- fsloth 3y ago
  The downfall of Nokia phones was seeded in it’s management culture. After one message from their CEO Elop Osbourned the market for Nokia phones faster than you can say ”burning raft”, the house of cards built on top of strong early brand history and increasingly commodotized radio technology, Micrsoft basically paid billions for an offering that would have required a heroic&legendary pivot (would have been possible with the talent and tech still in house). Really really. You have two so-frigging-stereotypical samples of management ineptitude in running a strong commercial brand AND leadership (Osbourne:’guys our phones suck’ ; ’change management 101’: burning raft is literally the most commmon and mundane turn of phraze meant to imply you need to act fast. Using this specific phraze is a clear beacon you are out of way out of your depth by paraphrazing 101 material to your company). If the phones had been a strong product, none of this would have mattered. But they weren’t and this was as clear way to signal ”emperor has no clothes” as possible.
  - mlajtos 3y ago
    N9 was a work of art. Fuck Elop.
    - fsloth 3y ago
      In general software seems to be really hard for hardware companies. This was the main reason for the downfall IMO. The things that make you succeed in hardware do not suffice, and are partly wrong in software. The N9 etc demonstrated there was enough talent for a plausible pivot. Was it business wise obvious this would have been the only and right choice?
      - scrubs 3y ago
        Agree: Japanese and German manufacturing and materials know how? Lengendary. Software? Hmmmm.
      - inglor_cz 3y ago
        I programmed for Symbian OS. The dialect of C++ was pure hell, and the wanton diversity of products meant that there was no chance to get consistent UI over a chock-full of models whose selling potential was unknown in advance. Theoretically, there were standards such as Series 60. Practically, those were full of compatibility breaks and just weird idiosyncrasies. Screen dimensions, available APIs, everything varied as if designed by a team of competing drunk sailors, and you could always plunge a week of work into fine-tuning your app for a platform that flopped. Unlike Apple, there just wasn't any software consistency. Some of the products were great, some were terrible, and all were subtly incompatible with one another.
    - justsomehnguy 3y ago
      > Fuck Elop It wasn't Elop who drove Nokia to the state it was in 2009. "Burning Platform" is from 2011. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35030334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35030334
  - meyum33 3y ago
    When the iPhone 14 Pro came out, I was reminded of Nokia's supersampling 41MP camera, along with wireless charging, OIS, night mode, and other things Nokia shipped very early with Windows Phone. Now looking back, there was no guarantee that adopting Android would've given Nokia any enduring advantage. Where's HTC now? Does anybody even remember it? With Windows at least there's another chance of being bailed out by Microsoft. It's probably the better choice for shareholders.

> Thankfully M$ didn't have control of the board You never know. Remember Nokia?

smilespray 3y ago

That still pisses me off.

fsloth 3y ago
The downfall of Nokia phones was seeded in it’s management culture. After one message from their CEO Elop Osbourned the market for Nokia phones faster than you can say ”burning raft”, the house of cards built on top of strong early brand history and increasingly commodotized radio technology, Micrsoft basically paid billions for an offering that would have required a heroic&legendary pivot (would have been possible with the talent and tech still in house). Really really. You have two so-frigging-stereotypical samples of management ineptitude in running a strong commercial brand AND leadership (Osbourne:’guys our phones suck’ ; ’change management 101’: burning raft is literally the most commmon and mundane turn of phraze meant to imply you need to act fast. Using this specific phraze is a clear beacon you are out of way out of your depth by paraphrazing 101 material to your company). If the phones had been a strong product, none of this would have mattered. But they weren’t and this was as clear way to signal ”emperor has no clothes” as possible.
- mlajtos 3y ago
  N9 was a work of art. Fuck Elop.
  - fsloth 3y ago
    In general software seems to be really hard for hardware companies. This was the main reason for the downfall IMO. The things that make you succeed in hardware do not suffice, and are partly wrong in software. The N9 etc demonstrated there was enough talent for a plausible pivot. Was it business wise obvious this would have been the only and right choice?
    - scrubs 3y ago
      Agree: Japanese and German manufacturing and materials know how? Lengendary. Software? Hmmmm.
    - inglor_cz 3y ago
      I programmed for Symbian OS. The dialect of C++ was pure hell, and the wanton diversity of products meant that there was no chance to get consistent UI over a chock-full of models whose selling potential was unknown in advance. Theoretically, there were standards such as Series 60. Practically, those were full of compatibility breaks and just weird idiosyncrasies. Screen dimensions, available APIs, everything varied as if designed by a team of competing drunk sailors, and you could always plunge a week of work into fine-tuning your app for a platform that flopped. Unlike Apple, there just wasn't any software consistency. Some of the products were great, some were terrible, and all were subtly incompatible with one another.
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    > Fuck Elop It wasn't Elop who drove Nokia to the state it was in 2009. "Burning Platform" is from 2011. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35030334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35030334
- meyum33 3y ago
  When the iPhone 14 Pro came out, I was reminded of Nokia's supersampling 41MP camera, along with wireless charging, OIS, night mode, and other things Nokia shipped very early with Windows Phone. Now looking back, there was no guarantee that adopting Android would've given Nokia any enduring advantage. Where's HTC now? Does anybody even remember it? With Windows at least there's another chance of being bailed out by Microsoft. It's probably the better choice for shareholders.