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Here's the actual problem. Kids are cute and annoying. You love them but they will drive you nuts if you don't drain their energy and attention. The previous s

Here's the actual problem. Kids are cute and annoying. You love them but they will drive you nuts if you don't drain their energy and attention. The previous solution to this was that parents booted their kids out of the house and made them play outside. This has somehow gone from normal parenting to abusive behavior that could get you arrested in some places with a possibility of losing the child. So instead, we throw tvs, ipads, and phones at them just so we can get a modicum of quiet. Not surprisingly, each one of those is bad for the kid. The developmental problem is screen time but the scary one is strangers on the Internet. Elsa Gate upset a lot of people, and that's not the worst thing that happens. Policing the Internet is a bad decision. Any Internet Safety Committee will eventually be staffed by the people you would least like to be there. That's especially problematic because one person's bad guy is another person's hero a lot of the time. Although this is the inevitable future due to increasing clamor by Internet companies for regulatory capture, it won't even be effective. Parental controls never work. Your kid has way more time and motivation to figure out workarounds, even if the parents and the company set everything correctly. Everyone also knows that there will be at least one friend whose parents don't care. This is true whether the parental controls are local or done by a central committee. The only solution to this mess is: * Remove the insane laws and policies that prevent parents from letting their children play outside, especially unaccompanied. * Educate parents on the importance of moderating and monitoring electronics use. * Educate parents on how to educate their children about the dangers of the Internet, especially social media, pornography, and pedophiles. * Accept that some parents don't care and will neglect their children no matter what you do. Instead, empower the parents that do care to easily and safely raise their children.

Libcat99 3y ago
The media has been pushing for years that playing outside is dangerous and to be punished. It's not just laws that need to change, it's public opinion.
- w-ll 3y ago
  Look, i dont have kids, so take this with a grain of salt, but even crossing the street at an interstion with clear rules, in a walkable city, is dangerous these days. Everyone is on their phones, not paying attention. I dont know who to blame, but collectively we are kinda F'd. Just the other day someone almost hit, while i was walking in a desiginated walking area and they just said "sorry, didnt see you." I replied in kind "duck you get off your phone" it sucks kids cant run around and play, i did, but also we've gotten ourselves in a bad spot with screens and phone. im not advocating anything, just saying, it sucks everwhere
  - Barrin92 3y ago
    Traffic accidents including kids (as well as traffic accidents in general) have been trending down for decades significantly[1]. This is also the case for virtually any safety related statistic. It has nothing to do with reality, it's simply that helicopter parenting and neuroticism has been trending up for ages. [1]https://seriousaccidents.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/children-traffic-fatalities-by-year-graph2.jpg https://seriousaccidents.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/chil...
    - escapedmoose 3y ago
      If helicopter parenting is trending up while traffic accidents including kids are trending down, isn’t that more likely to be evidence in favor of helicopter parenting?
      - Filligree 3y ago
        Helicopter parenting doesn't account for the decrease in accidents involving adults.
      - dns_snek 3y ago
        Only if you optimize for survival and survival alone.
    - w-ll 3y ago
      Thats an intersting chart, and i conced doesnt align with my anecdotal data. Can you like the source post or data for this data? I dont think its the scary boogy man of people snaching kids, but really drivers just on their phones, but hard to tell.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Vehicle hood heights and visibility have dropped big time, and more importantly, everyone is distracted driving. Cars are the only reason I cannot let me just pay unattended until they are quite a bit older.
blatherard 3y ago
By middle school most kids are effectively required to be on their computers and/or phones on a daily basis to even just do their homework. And their friends are going to be texting. These kids are going to be on screens, regardless of playtime outside. I already have a pretty good understanding of "the importance of moderating and monitoring electronics use", and would really like the tools that help me do just those things to work better.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  This is what makes me irritated when folks (like, say, on this very site) are all, “LOL just do your job, parents.” Yeah, I’m fucking trying, but all the tech features for this are defective and this is a whole pile of extra crap that prior generations of parents didn’t have to spend time and attention on. Maybe help? By not writing software with defective or absent parental controls? Please? God help parents who didn’t grow up doing stuff like configuring OpenBSD routers for fun. They have no hope of figuring all this out.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    This is the truth! When you have a motivated child, they have way more free time and energy to circumvent any restrictions in place. I’ve had to restrict outbound DNS, block traffic to devices at hours when kids should be asleep, and move to an allow list for web content that must get approved for time. And then we lock up devices at night. And if I didn’t have those things in place? My son would literally stay up all night playing games, figuring out ways to bypass content filters, and who knows what else. If you’re a parent and think, “not my kid!”, that might be true, but it probably isn’t for their friends. And Apple’s “One more minute” feature that requires understanding undocumented, incoherent Screen Time config, screw that. If I set limits, I don’t expect my kids to be able to on-more-minute their game playing for multiple hours in a row.
    - wvenable 3y ago
      I got my son a phone with an actual phone plan so blocking things at the router is sadly no longer an option. iPhone parental controls are not sufficient. He's figured out he can just message himself videos so he can watch them when all other app access is disabled and the messages app can't be blocked. There are so many obvious ways in which it could be improved and made easier for parents to control.
wvenable 3y ago
As a parent who's kid does find amazingly creative solution to working around the parental controls, I don't believe they never work. I have pretty strict parental controls which amounts to still a pretty open net but it's not nothing. Something, in this case, is better than nothing at all. My goal is not to prevent all access to all "naughty" information that but rather to provide some control because my kid doesn't yet have fully developed self-control.
MichaelRo 3y ago
>> Remove the insane laws and policies that prevent parents from letting their children play outside, especially unaccompanied. Well, there's no such law where I live but I still don't quite let loose of my 10 years old kid outside, because the crowded city environment he grew in is very different from the loose countryside where I grew. What I fear most is him getting run over by a car, they're fucking everywhere. Running after a toy, riding his bike into a road crossing or just popping into the road without looking, all too probable possibilities for me to risk it. So better inside with some Lego or what else but that can only last for so long before he gets bored out of his mind and switches to some screen.
- switch007 3y ago
  Chances are it wouldn’t even be a car car, more like a “truck” (SUV, crossover). Something high off the ground with reduced ground level visibility, insanely safe for the driver so they feel safe driving at higher speeds. Vehicles which also tend to be highly popular with families. The tragic irony.
zaptheimpaler 3y ago
I'm not a parent but how bad is this social policing on letting your kid have a life outside? Are there actual laws against abuse that are weaponized in these situations or is it kind of a social stigma. Like I really really do not plan on over sheltering my kids unless forced to at gunpoint.
- Footnote7341 3y ago
  The people I live with are extremely anxious to even let their CATS outside, there is no way anyones letting their kids run around the street anymore. It's pure social pressure.
- pleoxy 3y ago
  So, my state has laws on the books to explicitly protect reasonable solo outdoor play. I still get reported by random people if my kids are outside, in our own front yard, without a visible parent watching. They call the cops, sometimes other agencies. The police come and lecture me with a tone that I shouldn't do anything that might cause someone to call. That they shouldn't be in our own yard without direct supervision. The agencies will sometimes come do a "wellness check" when you have enough reports against you. It's really creepy having state agencies looking for problems at your place that have nothing to do with the reports. If you fail they can haul off your kids. Lots of rumors that they can be capricious and don't require any court proceedings. So I don't let my kids play much outside. Nobody seems to care what is reasonable or legal.

Libcat99 3y ago

The media has been pushing for years that playing outside is dangerous and to be punished. It's not just laws that need to change, it's public opinion.

w-ll 3y ago
Look, i dont have kids, so take this with a grain of salt, but even crossing the street at an interstion with clear rules, in a walkable city, is dangerous these days. Everyone is on their phones, not paying attention. I dont know who to blame, but collectively we are kinda F'd. Just the other day someone almost hit, while i was walking in a desiginated walking area and they just said "sorry, didnt see you." I replied in kind "duck you get off your phone" it sucks kids cant run around and play, i did, but also we've gotten ourselves in a bad spot with screens and phone. im not advocating anything, just saying, it sucks everwhere
- Barrin92 3y ago
  Traffic accidents including kids (as well as traffic accidents in general) have been trending down for decades significantly[1]. This is also the case for virtually any safety related statistic. It has nothing to do with reality, it's simply that helicopter parenting and neuroticism has been trending up for ages. [1]https://seriousaccidents.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/children-traffic-fatalities-by-year-graph2.jpg https://seriousaccidents.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/chil...
  - escapedmoose 3y ago
    If helicopter parenting is trending up while traffic accidents including kids are trending down, isn’t that more likely to be evidence in favor of helicopter parenting?
    - Filligree 3y ago
      Helicopter parenting doesn't account for the decrease in accidents involving adults.
    - dns_snek 3y ago
      Only if you optimize for survival and survival alone.
  - w-ll 3y ago
    Thats an intersting chart, and i conced doesnt align with my anecdotal data. Can you like the source post or data for this data? I dont think its the scary boogy man of people snaching kids, but really drivers just on their phones, but hard to tell.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Vehicle hood heights and visibility have dropped big time, and more importantly, everyone is distracted driving. Cars are the only reason I cannot let me just pay unattended until they are quite a bit older.

blatherard 3y ago

By middle school most kids are effectively required to be on their computers and/or phones on a daily basis to even just do their homework. And their friends are going to be texting. These kids are going to be on screens, regardless of playtime outside. I already have a pretty good understanding of "the importance of moderating and monitoring electronics use", and would really like the tools that help me do just those things to work better.

hotnfresh 3y ago
This is what makes me irritated when folks (like, say, on this very site) are all, “LOL just do your job, parents.” Yeah, I’m fucking trying, but all the tech features for this are defective and this is a whole pile of extra crap that prior generations of parents didn’t have to spend time and attention on. Maybe help? By not writing software with defective or absent parental controls? Please? God help parents who didn’t grow up doing stuff like configuring OpenBSD routers for fun. They have no hope of figuring all this out.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  This is the truth! When you have a motivated child, they have way more free time and energy to circumvent any restrictions in place. I’ve had to restrict outbound DNS, block traffic to devices at hours when kids should be asleep, and move to an allow list for web content that must get approved for time. And then we lock up devices at night. And if I didn’t have those things in place? My son would literally stay up all night playing games, figuring out ways to bypass content filters, and who knows what else. If you’re a parent and think, “not my kid!”, that might be true, but it probably isn’t for their friends. And Apple’s “One more minute” feature that requires understanding undocumented, incoherent Screen Time config, screw that. If I set limits, I don’t expect my kids to be able to on-more-minute their game playing for multiple hours in a row.
  - wvenable 3y ago
    I got my son a phone with an actual phone plan so blocking things at the router is sadly no longer an option. iPhone parental controls are not sufficient. He's figured out he can just message himself videos so he can watch them when all other app access is disabled and the messages app can't be blocked. There are so many obvious ways in which it could be improved and made easier for parents to control.

wvenable 3y ago

As a parent who's kid does find amazingly creative solution to working around the parental controls, I don't believe they never work. I have pretty strict parental controls which amounts to still a pretty open net but it's not nothing. Something, in this case, is better than nothing at all. My goal is not to prevent all access to all "naughty" information that but rather to provide some control because my kid doesn't yet have fully developed self-control.

MichaelRo 3y ago

>> Remove the insane laws and policies that prevent parents from letting their children play outside, especially unaccompanied. Well, there's no such law where I live but I still don't quite let loose of my 10 years old kid outside, because the crowded city environment he grew in is very different from the loose countryside where I grew. What I fear most is him getting run over by a car, they're fucking everywhere. Running after a toy, riding his bike into a road crossing or just popping into the road without looking, all too probable possibilities for me to risk it. So better inside with some Lego or what else but that can only last for so long before he gets bored out of his mind and switches to some screen.

switch007 3y ago
Chances are it wouldn’t even be a car car, more like a “truck” (SUV, crossover). Something high off the ground with reduced ground level visibility, insanely safe for the driver so they feel safe driving at higher speeds. Vehicles which also tend to be highly popular with families. The tragic irony.

zaptheimpaler 3y ago

I'm not a parent but how bad is this social policing on letting your kid have a life outside? Are there actual laws against abuse that are weaponized in these situations or is it kind of a social stigma. Like I really really do not plan on over sheltering my kids unless forced to at gunpoint.

Footnote7341 3y ago
The people I live with are extremely anxious to even let their CATS outside, there is no way anyones letting their kids run around the street anymore. It's pure social pressure.
pleoxy 3y ago
So, my state has laws on the books to explicitly protect reasonable solo outdoor play. I still get reported by random people if my kids are outside, in our own front yard, without a visible parent watching. They call the cops, sometimes other agencies. The police come and lecture me with a tone that I shouldn't do anything that might cause someone to call. That they shouldn't be in our own yard without direct supervision. The agencies will sometimes come do a "wellness check" when you have enough reports against you. It's really creepy having state agencies looking for problems at your place that have nothing to do with the reports. If you fail they can haul off your kids. Lots of rumors that they can be capricious and don't require any court proceedings. So I don't let my kids play much outside. Nobody seems to care what is reasonable or legal.