9 ms·

Screen time does not affect child development

17 points by jonas_kgomo 3y ago

kemotep 3y ago
Then why do so many kids scream their heads off and have temper tantrums when the phone is taken away? I can’t read the article at this time as it says that the site has reached its limit and I have been rate limited and blocked. Some kind of wordpress add on called wordfence?
- Cpoll 3y ago
  > scream their heads off and have temper tantrums Sure, but they also do that when you take away dessert. So you're on to something, ice cream causes developmental growth.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - addicted 3y ago
    Your logic seems backwards. The poster you’re replying to is saying: Kids screaming and throwing tantrums when their screens are taken away implies that screens are bad for the kids’ development. So, kids screaming and throwing tantrums when their ice cream is taken away implies that ice cream is bad, not good, for the kids’ development according to the poster’s logic. I suspect most people do agree with the latter, that ice cream is bad for kids’ development, which is why everyone from doctors, parents, etc will recommend greatly moderating ice cream consumption, which is probably what most are recommending for screen time as well.
    - alex_lav 3y ago
      > So, kids screaming and throwing tantrums when their ice cream is taken away implies that ice cream is bad This premise seems just flatout wrong though. Kids get mad when you take stuff from them, regardless of what they’re holding. I feel like I must be misunderstanding what’s being argued, because “if a kid gets mad that it’s taken away, it’s bad for them” seems at face value absolutely ridiculous and pretty verifiably untrue? Give a kid a bottle and then take it away and they’ll cry…
      - kemotep 3y ago
        My experience is that you don’t even need to physically remove the device for the tantrum to start. The battery has died and I have seen children explode and be unable to calm down until after the phone was charged back up or that parent gave their kid their own phone. I have only seen it a few times but going out to eat or to the zoo, I see kids glued to their screens all the time. I have negative experiences with mindless scrolling youtube or reddit as an adult and understand that I have an unhealthy relationship with them due to the addictive nature and I feel my attention span has reduced over the years. If adults can have unhealthy habits with technology, why can’t small children? Reducing the child’s dependence on a screen to stay entertained or to behave in a public setting is more like cutting your child off after a few cookies and not letting them just eat several dozen cookies for dinner than taking the bottle away. Phones aren’t necessary like a bottle of milk is for babies.
      - abracadaniel 3y ago
        Grab a coworkers laptop while they’re working and see the adult version of the same internal emotional response. It’s normally about unmet expectations. Set a new expectation with a: “hey you got 5 more minutes, then we need to put it away, understand?” And follow it up with a 5 minute timer. Timer goes off and maybe a disappointed pout, but not a tantrum. The child version of scheduled maintenance.
    - Cpoll 3y ago
      You're right, I over-edited my post and skipped the final proofread. It needs an "impedes" somewhere in there. Ice cream was an arbitrary choice, I could well have said French fries, or something unrelated to dietary choices.
- janosdebugs 3y ago
  > Then why do so many kids scream their heads off and have temper tantrums when the phone is taken away? Taking things away as a method of enforcement doesn't seem to be all that effective and it undermines the kid's self determination. The only thing it does make kids angry and disappointed. A lot of kids have to live by arbitrary rules that don't make any sense, or if they do, haven't been explained to the kid. "Go to your room" and taking things away need to go away from the parenting toolkit, they just lead to kids who get accustomed to going behind the parents' back.
  - hfiebwiosn 3y ago
    > they just lead to kids who get accustomed to going behind the parents' back This is really the behavior you’re trying to correct. Your kid needs to learn low trust behaviors are absolutely not acceptable. You won’t have many friends or responsibilities if you don’t learn this. A lot of parenting is teaching your kids how to remain trustworthy when it’s hard. Anything above that (go to your room, did you do your homework, make sure you’re home at 9) is relatively inconsequential.
    - janosdebugs 3y ago
      Unfortunately, from what I see it achieves exactly the opposite. The kids who have experienced an authocratic parenting style seem to be the ones most likely to do something untoward (~11-12 year olds).
  - swatcoder 3y ago
    > A lot of kids have to live by arbitrary rules that don't make any sense, or if they do, haven't been explained to the kid. Yes, and that’s what all humans experience throughout their whole lives. If kids aren’t exposed to measured loss and frustration in the thoughtful safety of their home, they won’t develop the skills needed for adulthood, where loss and frustration may not be so measured and constructive. While lying is one coping skill they might develop, there are many others, and a helping role of the parent is in helping the kid find good alternatives.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  In fairness, taking any thing away from children and having them scream in response has been pretty standard fare since time immemorial. At least that's always been my impression. As an adult, I'd be pissed if someone decided to take away the Macbook I'm typing on because of their subjective opinion that I did a naughty thing.
  - kemotep 3y ago
    But at least you can understand why watching skibidi toilet is inappropriate during family dinner. “Taking it away” can mean suggesting not watching youtube while at the dinner table. I’m not saying that no one is just ripping the phone right out of the kids hands but my experience is that when the phone battery dies, the screen addicted kids begin to meltdown until you fix it.
jvanderbot 3y ago
The screen time was self reported and the cohort was 9 to 12 year olds. I'm sure researchers are a capable bunch but to my naive mind that seems like a minefield.
- apwell23 3y ago
  All the previous 'screen time harmful' studies are also self reported.
i8comments 3y ago
More research is needed.
boh 3y ago
A parent doing their own "research" can quickly dispute these claims. A popular term in the parent community is "screen kid" to describe those kids who come for a play-date but literally don't know what to do when there isn't a screen in their hand. Screen kids tend be more neurotic, distractible, emotional and totally addicted to screen time. It's a little bit of a hot topic since the parents who rely more on screen-time to manage their children tend to disagree.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > A popular term in the parent community is "screen kid" to describe those kids who come for a play-date but literally don't know what to do when there isn't a screen in their hand. Screen kids tend be more neurotic, distractible, emotional and totally addicted to screen time There's evidence that from a very young age, kids with ASD are more attracted to screens and tend to stay longer on them; because this starts earlier than the age at which ASD is diagnosed, its often been spun (especially in the popular press) as screens contributing to ASD, but there is a lots of reason to believe that the connection is more the other way around.
- GPerson 3y ago
  From this reading, it’s possible the causality is reversed here. If I’m desperate because I’ve got a neurotic and emotional kid, I might be more likely to hook them up to an iPad.
  - galdosdi 3y ago
    Of course. Yet it's also a great way to ensure a small neurotic problem becomes a bigger and bigger one, and does not get a chance to heal and improve while it's still small and the child is still young and more plastic.
    - bunderbunder 3y ago
      100 years ago people were making similar arguments about kids reading books, and then somewhere between then and now the culture shifted and we decided we actually want kids reading more, not less. I agree with parent poster, we've got to be very careful about correlation and causation here. The screen kids I know, yes they definitely do seem to have poorer mental health, but there also tends to be a lot more questionable stuff than just the kid's own screen time happening in their homes. Notably, their parents are often so completely keyed into their own priorities (which may or may not be Wordle) that the kids don't really have anything else to do, anyway. So another decent hypothesis is that the kids just aren't getting as much good social interaction, period, and that's what's really affecting their social-emotional development. If that's true, then that might imply that the screen is more of a coping mechanism on the kid's part (and therefore might even be beneficial given the context) than a primary cause of the problem.
yieldcrv 3y ago
> Our findings should help guide the heated debates about technology away from hyperbole and towards high-quality science task failed successfully, judging by every comment so far
rahimnathwani 3y ago
The HN title doesn't match the press release title. And IMO the press release title doesn't accurately reflect the claims in the actual paper. The study's input data were self-reported screen usage, and brain scans. The study didn't measure actual screen time, or measure children's behaviour or performance in tests.
itsalwaysdns 3y ago
[flagged]
pizzafeelsright 3y ago
I got a toddler and we do zero tablet or phone time. The draw is definitely there and substitutes that draw em are juke boxes, fish finders, etc. Anything that has a touch interface. The trope of basement nerds is happening to the lower iq as the technology barriers of entry get removed. I find the children with far less screen time can communicate in meaningful ways and above their peers who are on tablets for hours on end.

17 points by jonas_kgomo 3y ago

Then why do so many kids scream their heads off and have temper tantrums when the phone is taken away? I can’t read the article at this time as it says that the site has reached its limit and I have been rate limited and blocked. Some kind of wordpress add on called wordfence?

Cpoll 3y ago
> scream their heads off and have temper tantrums Sure, but they also do that when you take away dessert. So you're on to something, ice cream causes developmental growth.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- addicted 3y ago
  Your logic seems backwards. The poster you’re replying to is saying: Kids screaming and throwing tantrums when their screens are taken away implies that screens are bad for the kids’ development. So, kids screaming and throwing tantrums when their ice cream is taken away implies that ice cream is bad, not good, for the kids’ development according to the poster’s logic. I suspect most people do agree with the latter, that ice cream is bad for kids’ development, which is why everyone from doctors, parents, etc will recommend greatly moderating ice cream consumption, which is probably what most are recommending for screen time as well.
  - alex_lav 3y ago
    > So, kids screaming and throwing tantrums when their ice cream is taken away implies that ice cream is bad This premise seems just flatout wrong though. Kids get mad when you take stuff from them, regardless of what they’re holding. I feel like I must be misunderstanding what’s being argued, because “if a kid gets mad that it’s taken away, it’s bad for them” seems at face value absolutely ridiculous and pretty verifiably untrue? Give a kid a bottle and then take it away and they’ll cry…
    - kemotep 3y ago
      My experience is that you don’t even need to physically remove the device for the tantrum to start. The battery has died and I have seen children explode and be unable to calm down until after the phone was charged back up or that parent gave their kid their own phone. I have only seen it a few times but going out to eat or to the zoo, I see kids glued to their screens all the time. I have negative experiences with mindless scrolling youtube or reddit as an adult and understand that I have an unhealthy relationship with them due to the addictive nature and I feel my attention span has reduced over the years. If adults can have unhealthy habits with technology, why can’t small children? Reducing the child’s dependence on a screen to stay entertained or to behave in a public setting is more like cutting your child off after a few cookies and not letting them just eat several dozen cookies for dinner than taking the bottle away. Phones aren’t necessary like a bottle of milk is for babies.
    - abracadaniel 3y ago
      Grab a coworkers laptop while they’re working and see the adult version of the same internal emotional response. It’s normally about unmet expectations. Set a new expectation with a: “hey you got 5 more minutes, then we need to put it away, understand?” And follow it up with a 5 minute timer. Timer goes off and maybe a disappointed pout, but not a tantrum. The child version of scheduled maintenance.
  - Cpoll 3y ago
    You're right, I over-edited my post and skipped the final proofread. It needs an "impedes" somewhere in there. Ice cream was an arbitrary choice, I could well have said French fries, or something unrelated to dietary choices.
janosdebugs 3y ago
> Then why do so many kids scream their heads off and have temper tantrums when the phone is taken away? Taking things away as a method of enforcement doesn't seem to be all that effective and it undermines the kid's self determination. The only thing it does make kids angry and disappointed. A lot of kids have to live by arbitrary rules that don't make any sense, or if they do, haven't been explained to the kid. "Go to your room" and taking things away need to go away from the parenting toolkit, they just lead to kids who get accustomed to going behind the parents' back.
- hfiebwiosn 3y ago
  > they just lead to kids who get accustomed to going behind the parents' back This is really the behavior you’re trying to correct. Your kid needs to learn low trust behaviors are absolutely not acceptable. You won’t have many friends or responsibilities if you don’t learn this. A lot of parenting is teaching your kids how to remain trustworthy when it’s hard. Anything above that (go to your room, did you do your homework, make sure you’re home at 9) is relatively inconsequential.
  - janosdebugs 3y ago
    Unfortunately, from what I see it achieves exactly the opposite. The kids who have experienced an authocratic parenting style seem to be the ones most likely to do something untoward (~11-12 year olds).
- swatcoder 3y ago
  > A lot of kids have to live by arbitrary rules that don't make any sense, or if they do, haven't been explained to the kid. Yes, and that’s what all humans experience throughout their whole lives. If kids aren’t exposed to measured loss and frustration in the thoughtful safety of their home, they won’t develop the skills needed for adulthood, where loss and frustration may not be so measured and constructive. While lying is one coping skill they might develop, there are many others, and a helping role of the parent is in helping the kid find good alternatives.
ravenstine 3y ago
In fairness, taking any thing away from children and having them scream in response has been pretty standard fare since time immemorial. At least that's always been my impression. As an adult, I'd be pissed if someone decided to take away the Macbook I'm typing on because of their subjective opinion that I did a naughty thing.
- kemotep 3y ago
  But at least you can understand why watching skibidi toilet is inappropriate during family dinner. “Taking it away” can mean suggesting not watching youtube while at the dinner table. I’m not saying that no one is just ripping the phone right out of the kids hands but my experience is that when the phone battery dies, the screen addicted kids begin to meltdown until you fix it.

jvanderbot 3y ago

The screen time was self reported and the cohort was 9 to 12 year olds. I'm sure researchers are a capable bunch but to my naive mind that seems like a minefield.

apwell23 3y ago
All the previous 'screen time harmful' studies are also self reported.

i8comments 3y ago

More research is needed.

boh 3y ago

A parent doing their own "research" can quickly dispute these claims. A popular term in the parent community is "screen kid" to describe those kids who come for a play-date but literally don't know what to do when there isn't a screen in their hand. Screen kids tend be more neurotic, distractible, emotional and totally addicted to screen time. It's a little bit of a hot topic since the parents who rely more on screen-time to manage their children tend to disagree.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> A popular term in the parent community is "screen kid" to describe those kids who come for a play-date but literally don't know what to do when there isn't a screen in their hand. Screen kids tend be more neurotic, distractible, emotional and totally addicted to screen time There's evidence that from a very young age, kids with ASD are more attracted to screens and tend to stay longer on them; because this starts earlier than the age at which ASD is diagnosed, its often been spun (especially in the popular press) as screens contributing to ASD, but there is a lots of reason to believe that the connection is more the other way around.
GPerson 3y ago
From this reading, it’s possible the causality is reversed here. If I’m desperate because I’ve got a neurotic and emotional kid, I might be more likely to hook them up to an iPad.
- galdosdi 3y ago
  Of course. Yet it's also a great way to ensure a small neurotic problem becomes a bigger and bigger one, and does not get a chance to heal and improve while it's still small and the child is still young and more plastic.
  - bunderbunder 3y ago
    100 years ago people were making similar arguments about kids reading books, and then somewhere between then and now the culture shifted and we decided we actually want kids reading more, not less. I agree with parent poster, we've got to be very careful about correlation and causation here. The screen kids I know, yes they definitely do seem to have poorer mental health, but there also tends to be a lot more questionable stuff than just the kid's own screen time happening in their homes. Notably, their parents are often so completely keyed into their own priorities (which may or may not be Wordle) that the kids don't really have anything else to do, anyway. So another decent hypothesis is that the kids just aren't getting as much good social interaction, period, and that's what's really affecting their social-emotional development. If that's true, then that might imply that the screen is more of a coping mechanism on the kid's part (and therefore might even be beneficial given the context) than a primary cause of the problem.

yieldcrv 3y ago

> Our findings should help guide the heated debates about technology away from hyperbole and towards high-quality science task failed successfully, judging by every comment so far

rahimnathwani 3y ago

The HN title doesn't match the press release title. And IMO the press release title doesn't accurately reflect the claims in the actual paper. The study's input data were self-reported screen usage, and brain scans. The study didn't measure actual screen time, or measure children's behaviour or performance in tests.

itsalwaysdns 3y ago

[flagged]

pizzafeelsright 3y ago

I got a toddler and we do zero tablet or phone time. The draw is definitely there and substitutes that draw em are juke boxes, fish finders, etc. Anything that has a touch interface. The trope of basement nerds is happening to the lower iq as the technology barriers of entry get removed. I find the children with far less screen time can communicate in meaningful ways and above their peers who are on tablets for hours on end.