9 ms·

I Hacked the Magic Mouse

436 points by nmstoker 3y ago

adastra22 3y ago
Congrats on beating out one of the OpenAI threads!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
softskunk 3y ago
i think i recall reading somewhere that apple designed the mouse in the way they did in order to prevent people just leaving the mouse on charge 24/7 and hence not using its wireless capability while negatively affecting the battery. i’m not saying i agree with apple’s decision, but i find the perspective interesting.
- rcruzeiro 3y ago
  Im not sure about that as both the Magic Trackpad and Magic Keyboard both have the charging ports on their backs.
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    Neither of those gets wiggled around during use though. The wireless mice I've had with optionally connected cords for data/charging do tend to have a big glob of plastic at the end that locks into the mouse housing so none of the strain is on the actual USB connection. Things like these: https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-Mouse-Cable-Meters-Copper/dp/B08HLGJFSX https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-Mouse-Cable-Meters-Copper/dp/B... https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251800588456430.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251800588456430.html
- bogantech 3y ago
  It would be quite simple for the firmware to handle such use cases as that with some battery management. They just want to control exactly how you use their products
- elzbardico 3y ago
  Nah, it was a pure aesthetically oriented decision from John Ive. The ergonomics could be a lot better too.
  - aerio 3y ago
    Jony Ive*
- parker_mountain 3y ago
  A more plausible explanation was that the cable strain of not using a specialty cable was also an issue. Look at where the cable attaches to the mouse on a conventional mouse - it's usually very reinforced internally or extenernally
  - dkarras 3y ago
    it has become a meme, but really a non-issue in real life if you used the mouse yourself really. A minute or so of charging is enough to power it for a whole day of use. plug it again when you leave your desk for a bit and you'll have enough charge for days.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - stephenr 3y ago
      Who do you think you are dispelling memes and disenfranchising the chuds who need something to complain about. I mean really? Why do you have to bring actual use and reality into it? Seriously though. This is absolutely correct. I get that some people don't like it, but I really don't get the obsession with the charging port. I guess I should be glad that these people didn't complain the Apple Watch can't be worn while it's charging.
    - djmips 3y ago
      You could just spring for two mice. And if you do find yourself in a rush and your mouse dies then just go for the backup and charge the dead mouse and it becomes the backup.
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
  Use AA batteries.
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    It'd be hard to fit AA and even AAA in the profile of the Magic Mouse. The obvious response is that the mouse should be thicker to accommodate those batteries, but that goes against Apple's entire ethos.
    - numpad0 3y ago
      1st gen MM uses 2xAA. Apple even had a branded NiMH bundle for that and keyboard.
      - imwally 3y ago
        Still use this one every day.
      - gumby 3y ago
        I still have and use an Apple branded AA chargers (came with Eneloops in Apple livery). It has the same connection system as the external chargers so I normally have it connected to a long cable. Used it internationally with the same adaptors as for my MacBook charger.
      - password4321 3y ago
        Received a refurbed Mac and someone had swapped out their mouse for my rechargeable one... always a song and dance to re-connect every time the batteries die. (I pretty much use another mouse to get to the Bluetooth icon on the menu, I'm no Mac expert.) I always shake my fist in the air and curse "Eric Seifert's Mouse" semi-silently in frustration!
    - Tagbert 3y ago
      The reason for the thinness of the Apple Mouse is so that gestures can be used on the top like a trackpad. If it were domes like a typical Logitech mouse, you couldn’t do that. Whether those gestures turned out to be useful is another question but that was the reason.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- RulerOf 3y ago
  I'd go a little farther than that—I suspect that they were worried a chunk of users would assume the device required the cord for normal operation.
- cwalv 3y ago
  Being able to charge it while in use might extend the life of the mouse past the life of the battery
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    The fact that you only need to charge it once a month indicates the battery isn't going through many cycles. I expect the battery to last a very long time.
    - Ringz 3y ago
      @Cwalv is still right. Especially if you value sustainability higher than the manufacturer's share price. And you should always do that.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  No, it was entirely to recycle the design and tooling of the Magic Mouse 1 which used AA batteries. The Magic Trackpad 2 and Magic Keyboard came out the exact same day as the MM2 but both of those happily work plugged in and even work wired while plugged in.
  - mslt 3y ago
    Supply chain guy - This is it right here. Hardware accessories like mice aren’t driving substantial sales or revenue; they’re just a cost of doing business if you sell PCs. But swapping tooling and retraining staff on assembly is extremely disruptive for a manufacturer. That disruption is passed back to the 1st party brand in incremental FOB and per-unit surcharge. The incremental cost eats at your margin, which eats at your profit, which eats at your street price. So, if you’re forced to choose between margin erosion and incremental cost for a product that has little effect on sales growth, you save the money and recycle the design. People will bitch about the port on that mouse while they walk to the Apple Store to buy a new Mac that comes bundled with said mouse. Apple will save millions annually by not optimizing a product that doesn’t really make them any money on its own. When it’s reasonably cost effective to make a better peripheral, they will. Until then, they’re going to pay more attention to their books than people’s complaints, because mice don’t drive their business.
    - wredue 3y ago
      Oh there’s no shortage of people that defend the MM. That anyone uses this mouse for an extended period is insane. It’s heavy a fuck, not ergonomic in the slightest, has insane uncomfortable edging, and cannot be used plugged in. This mouse has no redeeming qualities at all.
      - monocularvision 3y ago
        I love the touch sensitive surface and prefer it over any other mouse with a spinning disc for scrolling. Is there another mouse out there that has a similar surface? I would switch in a heartbeat because I agree with the rest of your criticisms.
- grishka 3y ago
  The first-gen magic trackpad is even worse. It sits so close to a USB port, it's on the same spot on my desk 99.999% of the time, it has no valid reason to be wireless, yet it needs 2 AA batteries just because. Charging and swapping them is cumbersome and it always dies when you least expect it. Bluetooth is finicky too at times. I was looking forward to a USB-C magic mouse to replace it yet it didn't come.
GlumWoodpecker 3y ago
As a hobby project: cool. But as a solution to a problem, how about not supporting companies that make ridiculously overpriced products with hugely deficient functional designs? Apple consistently makes products that work worse than their competitors', for quadruple the price, but, hey, I guess they "look nice". ...which is subjective, personally I think Apple products look absolutely atrocious, with half of screen real estate of their software attributed to padding, and all their product's surfaces the blandest possible solid colors imaginable. So when a product not only functions worse, is several times the price, but also looks bad, what's left?
- favorited 3y ago
  > with half of screen real estate of their software attributed to padding Padding is incredibly important for readable text content. For example, WCAG recommends that blocks of text be no more than 80 Latin glyphs wide. https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-visual-presentation.html https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-cont...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- ok_vimmer 3y ago
  [flagged]
- presbyterian 3y ago
  > Apple consistently makes products that work worse than their competitors’, for quadruple the price This is also subjective. Personally, I find Apple products to work far better than the competition. I have to use Windows every day at work and I find the experience miserable, and I’ve had 3 different Android phones and always find myself returning to the iPhone. As for the price, Apple products do cost a bit more, but quadruple is quite the exaggeration. Comparable ultrabooks to the MacBook Pro (Dell XPS line, ThinkPad X1) aren’t massively far off, and they’re made of plastic, not aluminum, which makes a difference in durability in my experience. As for mobile, the iPhone is priced in line with other high-end smartphones like the Galaxy and Pixel lines.
LorenDB 3y ago
Huge respect for the RGB :)
Brajeshwar 3y ago
First, I’ve small hands. I started with the Mighty Mouse[1]. The current Magic Mouse is comfortable for my usage. The Mighty Mouse (Wireless) was the perfect one. I tried one of those Magic Mouse “enhancements” (2009-2010) -- a white silicon contraption -- that sits atop the mouse. It was handy, and I used it for a while. I eventually got used to the mouse in its form and stopped trying any modifications. I have tried the Master Series from Logitech, and I like them but don’t use all the functions. I like the simplicity of the Magic Mouse. Charging - I do it once in 45 days, or when it complains — leave it charged -- have tea, walk/run, or read. Charging was never a problem, and I believe everyone else making a lot of noise about the charging is just overblowing it. If you remember to leave it charged overnight, it needs no charging for the next month or so. 1. https://cdn.oinam.com/img/oinam/brajeshwar-apple-mighty-mouse-wired-wireless-2008-04-19.jpg https://cdn.oinam.com/img/oinam/brajeshwar-apple-mighty-mous...
- giobox 3y ago
  The Mighty Mouse size was nice, but not sure it was worth the constant hassle of cleaning the tiny track ball of whatever microscopic dust mote blocked it from working again and again - every single Mighty Mouse I ever owned would regularly jam up and be a pain to unjam. No other mouse I've ever owned or abused has had a button or wheel stop working, ever. I do miss the distinctive "click" Apple mice of this era made a lot though.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  The Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect mouse, IMHO. Its two flaws are 1) (as the sibling comment pointed out) how the scroll ball accumulates junk and is impossible to clean without cutting open the mouse and the implementation of the side buttons. Having a first party Apple mouse with real middle click support is awesome. The multi direction scrolling has become a mandatory mouse feature for me. The size and weight are fantastic. For those that have used it, and don’t know, the nearly haptic tic while scrolling is an internal speaker which provides great feedback (especially when the rollers get stuck and the clicking stops so you known it’s time to clean the ball). I find the Magic Mouse uncomfortable, it has no native middle click, no side buttons. Its best feature is that it fixed the scroll ball. I finally broke down and bought a new, old stock Mighty Mouse a few months ago. The scroll ball feels so smooth.
karmakaze 3y ago
The photos show why every magic mouse I've had always wore funny with the 'right button' getting mushy. There's only one microswitch and the right one is just a leaf spring.
- zozbot234 3y ago
  > There's only one microswitch Classic Apple mouse design. They never change, do they?
  - narrowtux 3y ago
    Think about having one plane (the entire glass) pressing 2 microswitches. Debouncing one switch is hard enough, now you've got to debounce 2, and detect if the user was doing a really fast double click, or just pressed in the center of the mouse.
    - krater23 3y ago
      Debouncing buttons is a solved problem at all. Thinking that Apple is so good that they put the charging port out of a reason to the bottom but aren't able to debouce two buttons is silly.
    - karmakaze 3y ago
      The problem Apple created for themselves is staying true to their 'one mouse button' philosophy for too long and literally.
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    Why are you even buying that inferior hardware? Apple can’t do anything right, right?
- theobromananda 3y ago
  I wasn't even aware that it could do right click. The magic mouses I had seen didn't want to do that.
Retr0id 3y ago
I think there's already a solution: flat-flex QI charging pads, like this one: https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/iphone-lightning-qi-universal-wireless-charging-adapter-66612 https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/iphone-lightning-qi-universal-wi... I don't endorse that particular listing, it was just the first one in my search results. It has a QI wireless power receiver, and a right-angled lightning connector. The intended usage is to plug it into an iPhone and put a case on top - but I think it'd work just fine on the bottom of a magic mouse. You could put the power transmitter under the mouse mat and never worry about charging ever again! I haven't tried this so maybe there are practical reasons why it's a bad idea. Has anyone tried it?
- djmips 3y ago
  A key problem is that charging via the lightning port on a Magic Mouse disables the mouse from working. This was only fully apparent for me from skimming the linked videos in the original post. That is why the person who 'hacked' the magic mouse went to all the trouble of creating a parallel charging circuit which directly charges the battery while in operation.
ushtaritk421 3y ago
I bought a Logitech
Aleksdev 3y ago
Seriously that charging spot is ridiculous!
ryandrake 3y ago
Good for this guy, wow. Nice project. I always thought that the Magic Mouse was really the ideal technology for interacting with a Mac--just too bad that it's so unergonomic. I can't prove it, but I blame a decade of Magic Mouse use for my very painful RSI, which I now have the pleasure of experiencing using any mouse at all. Apple's input devices are beautiful, but they totally blow comfort. It's as if their industrial designers are all in their early 20s and have never experienced joint pain.
- jahewson 3y ago
  I suspect you’re right. I very much enjoyed the Magic Mouse but had similar issues with wrist discomfort. The neutral position of the human wrist is vertical - thumb pointing up as if shaking hands with someone. The Magic Mouse is so low-profile that it forces the wrist into an almost 90deg rotation. Ergonomically, it’s highly problematic. The solution for me was to switch to a vertical mouse (well, almost) that allows the wrist to remain neutral. Because I missed the gestures I added a Magic Trackpad on the left side of my keyboard. Of course this suffers from the same ergonomic problem but I only reach for it sporadically so the impact is minimal.
  - lwhi 3y ago
    A vertical mouse was a game changer for my RSI. Stopped it in it's tracks.
  - eastbound 3y ago
    Why don’t you put the trackpad vertically?
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Tried the vertical mouse, but no help. My wrist seems to be permanently fucked. I use a trackpad 100% now, no problems.
    - Epa095 3y ago
      My 2 cents: I had rsi, then I started bouldering. At first I got more pain. The original rsi, but also the 'forearm pump'. But then after maybe half a year the pain dissappeared. Not just the new pain, but the old pain as well.
raverbashing 3y ago
Yeah, I honestly don't get the hate about the magic mouse "Oh but you have to charge it upside down", yes. Every something like 3 months I have to stop for some 15min (if I don't remember to charge it first) to be able to use it for the rest of the day and then charge it when I'm not using It is really one complaint that's more internet meme than an actual grievance
- al_borland 3y ago
  For a company as obsessed with design as Apple, it's a bad design. A mouse sitting upside-down, or on its side, on a desk is not exactly elegant. Even if it's just for a short period of time every 3 months, it's still an ugly solution. It's on par with the Apple Pencil that charged in the bottom of the iPad. A MagSafe connection to the front of the mouse seems like it would be much better. I have an old AA version of the Magic Mouse, I'd much rather use that over the current Magic Mouse, though I currently use a Logitech. If they ever move the charging port off the bottom, I might give the Apple mouse another look.
  - raverbashing 3y ago
    > A MagSafe connection to the front of the mouse seems like it would be much better. Yes, but even that would change the aesthetic of the mouse when right-side up. Though yes, I like your suggestion > It's on par with the Apple Pencil that charged in the bottom of the iPad. That's probably worse though. And yes I agree it is bad Basically yes, while charging upside down is ugly I think they kinda accept it because it's not "while in use" (also there might have been some space or other design constraints, etc)
    - lloeki 3y ago
      I think GP might have suggested a flush connection that would allow the mouse to stay flat and even operable while charging. In any case, given the thinness of Lightning, I still don't see how it would be impossibly ugly to have had such a connector at the top end of the mouse, turning it into a wired one during charge. The current Magic Mouse design is a compromised "plywood on the back of a chest of drawers" design. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpenter-making-a-beautiful-chest-of-drawers https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpen...
firexcy 3y ago
My contrarian view is that the Magic Mouse _can_ be ergonomic as long as you use to be keyboard-centric and treat the Magic Mouse primarily as an extra-large scroll wheel. Then you'll find the scrolling experience with the Magic Mouse is even better than one with a traditional mouse or a trackpad because you can speed-scroll with any finger, at any angle, and with minimal frictions. I especially enjoy scrolling with the right tip of my ring finger.
- mission_failed 3y ago
  So, the magic mouse is fine to use if you don't use it as a mouse...? I can't decide which is more appropriate, "Think different" or "you're holding it wrong"
  - tempodox 3y ago
    I do have a mouse pad that says “Think different” (from the previous millennium) but none that says “You're holding it wrong”. That's a serious gap that any competent mouse pad producer should hasten to fill.
  - Loggias 3y ago
    [dead]
  - thebruce87m 3y ago
    Reminder: he never said “you’re holding it wrong”
    - rasz 3y ago
      You are right, he said: >Gizmodo put their video on the web people were touching x marks the spot here and they were seeing a large drop in bars > doesn't seem like a good idea if you can touch your phone one particularly grip your phone in a certain way and the bars go way down and the fix was adding hysteresis to Cellular signal meter so it wont immediately react, no bars going down on screen = fixed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSLZ1jqhFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSLZ1jqhFQ
Andrew018 3y ago
[dead]
jbverschoor 3y ago
It will never be ergonomic.. swiping left and right in that way is not how the body works The whole product is full of bad decisions
1B05H1N 3y ago
Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
hbgl 3y ago
Maybe in the next version apple can disable the mouse when it detects that it being used in third-party plastic shell.
hahamaster 3y ago
There are thousands of mice available on the market, and almost all of them can be used on a Mac. It's strange that anyone bothers to fix any mouse. Just buy a mouse that fits your requirements.
- kojeovo 3y ago
  it's a hobby project..
- blamazon 3y ago
  What if one of my requirements is that the top of the mouse supports multi touch gestures?
- lemper 3y ago
  bro, let him cook. he hasn't cross the line.
  - hahamaster 3y ago
    I’m not saying he shouldn’t do it, I’m just saying it’s strange. Magic Mouse was designed to be held with two fingers and moved with the wrist. Personally I would never buy a product completely, diametrically different from what I need and then adapt it. But I guess some people like the challenge and I have no problem with that.
- hhh 3y ago
  Ivan creates a lot of great projects, it’s a hobby.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- premysl 3y ago
  Few, if any, other mice are touchpads. The Magic Mouse is more of a touchpad that happens to be capable of being used as a mouse.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nicexe 3y ago
I have one of those wireless magic mouse that takes 2x AA batteries. The optical sensor started behaving in a weird way back in 2018 I think, so I stopped using it. I wouldn't mind risking breaking it by trying to fix the sensor (cleaning the lens from the inside is probably enough), adding a rechargeable battery (and whatever circuitry that entails) and maybe even enhancing the ergonomics if it still works after that.
robofanatic 3y ago
To me the most annoying thing about magic mouse is the placement of the charging port.
- creesch 3y ago
  Cool, if you read the linked article you will see that this is also being addressed :)
sunrise54 3y ago
https://mousebase.io https://mousebase.io
- nrabulinski 3y ago
  Except it’s not comparable because they make a case for the Magic Mouse, don’t allow charging it and use a lens to have the sensor track while this guy added a charging port and disassembled his mouse to have the sensor truly be on the surface
tzs 3y ago
In practice most people don't care about the charging port being on the bottom because even if you forget to charge it for several weeks and it actually stops working it only takes two minutes to charge it up enough for 8 hours of work. As far as ergonomics goes, I've never had any more problems with a Magic Mouse than with any other mouse including ergonomic mice. People make fun of "you're holding it wrong", but really RSI does come down to holding and manipulating things in ways that aren't good for you. What ergonomic design does is try to make it so you that you will discover and use a good way of holding the thing on your own and/or try to make it so that it is hard to hold it in a bad way. That doesn't mean that things that do not have an ergonomic design cannot be used ergonomically. It just means you might have to consciously work at holding and manipulating them safely at least until that becomes habitual. For the Magic Mouse the way I hold it has my fingers and palm and wrist in the same position they would be in if I were just resting my arm on the table. The mouse is the right size and shape to fit well in the dome make by the curve of my resting fingers and resting palm. I don't really have a grip on it. It is more caged than held. Movement is mostly moving my whole arm. My wrist has barely any movement at all. Even when scrolling the wrist barely moves. Instead my arm backs up and raises so my middle finger can bend down and scroll.
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  A lot of us care about the charging port being on the bottom. It’s ludicrous. I can leave any top of the line Logitech mouse plugged in all the time and never have to even think about charging.
  - tzs 3y ago
    I'd bet that people who leave a wireless mouse plugged in all the time are a very tiny minority of mouse users. Most people want to use their wireless mouse wirelessly. For that vast majority the only consequence of the Magic Mouse port being on the bottom is that if they forget to charge their mouse for weeks and it dies in the middle of the day with the Magic Mouse they have to stop using the mouse for two minutes to get through the rest of the day whereas with the other mouse they would not lose those two minutes of mouse time.
costanzaDynasty 3y ago
People complain about the charging port, but I complain about having to pay extra for a black Magic Mouse.
tonymet 3y ago
The Magic Mouse charge port is deliberate. Apple knows that people would leave the cable connected if it were placed at the edge. that would undermine the wireless aesthetic.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mig39 3y ago
  And if people left it plugged in all the time, it messes with the battery life? The idea that Apple did this because they didn't know what they were doing is weird. Of course they knew what they were doing. You can charge it in a minute or two.
  - dreamcompiler 3y ago
    It wouldn't mess with the battery life if the charger were smart, but not all of them are. Including Apple's.
- ladberg 3y ago
  Additionally, all the existing lightning cables would not make good mouse cords because of their length, flexibility, and lack of strain relief. Apple chose not to allow people to keep a cable connected not just for the aesthetics but also to keep them from reusing existing cables (instead of an hypothetical lightning mouse cord) and getting a poor UX.

436 points by nmstoker 3y ago

adastra22 3y ago

Congrats on beating out one of the OpenAI threads!

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

softskunk 3y ago

i think i recall reading somewhere that apple designed the mouse in the way they did in order to prevent people just leaving the mouse on charge 24/7 and hence not using its wireless capability while negatively affecting the battery. i’m not saying i agree with apple’s decision, but i find the perspective interesting.

rcruzeiro 3y ago
Im not sure about that as both the Magic Trackpad and Magic Keyboard both have the charging ports on their backs.
- wlesieutre 3y ago
  Neither of those gets wiggled around during use though. The wireless mice I've had with optionally connected cords for data/charging do tend to have a big glob of plastic at the end that locks into the mouse housing so none of the strain is on the actual USB connection. Things like these: https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-Mouse-Cable-Meters-Copper/dp/B08HLGJFSX https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-Mouse-Cable-Meters-Copper/dp/B... https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251800588456430.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251800588456430.html
bogantech 3y ago
It would be quite simple for the firmware to handle such use cases as that with some battery management. They just want to control exactly how you use their products
elzbardico 3y ago
Nah, it was a pure aesthetically oriented decision from John Ive. The ergonomics could be a lot better too.
- aerio 3y ago
  Jony Ive*
parker_mountain 3y ago
A more plausible explanation was that the cable strain of not using a specialty cable was also an issue. Look at where the cable attaches to the mouse on a conventional mouse - it's usually very reinforced internally or extenernally
- dkarras 3y ago
  it has become a meme, but really a non-issue in real life if you used the mouse yourself really. A minute or so of charging is enough to power it for a whole day of use. plug it again when you leave your desk for a bit and you'll have enough charge for days.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - stephenr 3y ago
    Who do you think you are dispelling memes and disenfranchising the chuds who need something to complain about. I mean really? Why do you have to bring actual use and reality into it? Seriously though. This is absolutely correct. I get that some people don't like it, but I really don't get the obsession with the charging port. I guess I should be glad that these people didn't complain the Apple Watch can't be worn while it's charging.
  - djmips 3y ago
    You could just spring for two mice. And if you do find yourself in a rush and your mouse dies then just go for the backup and charge the dead mouse and it becomes the backup.
2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
Use AA batteries.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  It'd be hard to fit AA and even AAA in the profile of the Magic Mouse. The obvious response is that the mouse should be thicker to accommodate those batteries, but that goes against Apple's entire ethos.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    1st gen MM uses 2xAA. Apple even had a branded NiMH bundle for that and keyboard.
    - imwally 3y ago
      Still use this one every day.
    - gumby 3y ago
      I still have and use an Apple branded AA chargers (came with Eneloops in Apple livery). It has the same connection system as the external chargers so I normally have it connected to a long cable. Used it internationally with the same adaptors as for my MacBook charger.
    - password4321 3y ago
      Received a refurbed Mac and someone had swapped out their mouse for my rechargeable one... always a song and dance to re-connect every time the batteries die. (I pretty much use another mouse to get to the Bluetooth icon on the menu, I'm no Mac expert.) I always shake my fist in the air and curse "Eric Seifert's Mouse" semi-silently in frustration!
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    The reason for the thinness of the Apple Mouse is so that gestures can be used on the top like a trackpad. If it were domes like a typical Logitech mouse, you couldn’t do that. Whether those gestures turned out to be useful is another question but that was the reason.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RulerOf 3y ago
I'd go a little farther than that—I suspect that they were worried a chunk of users would assume the device required the cord for normal operation.
cwalv 3y ago
Being able to charge it while in use might extend the life of the mouse past the life of the battery
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  The fact that you only need to charge it once a month indicates the battery isn't going through many cycles. I expect the battery to last a very long time.
  - Ringz 3y ago
    @Cwalv is still right. Especially if you value sustainability higher than the manufacturer's share price. And you should always do that.
goosedragons 3y ago
No, it was entirely to recycle the design and tooling of the Magic Mouse 1 which used AA batteries. The Magic Trackpad 2 and Magic Keyboard came out the exact same day as the MM2 but both of those happily work plugged in and even work wired while plugged in.
- mslt 3y ago
  Supply chain guy - This is it right here. Hardware accessories like mice aren’t driving substantial sales or revenue; they’re just a cost of doing business if you sell PCs. But swapping tooling and retraining staff on assembly is extremely disruptive for a manufacturer. That disruption is passed back to the 1st party brand in incremental FOB and per-unit surcharge. The incremental cost eats at your margin, which eats at your profit, which eats at your street price. So, if you’re forced to choose between margin erosion and incremental cost for a product that has little effect on sales growth, you save the money and recycle the design. People will bitch about the port on that mouse while they walk to the Apple Store to buy a new Mac that comes bundled with said mouse. Apple will save millions annually by not optimizing a product that doesn’t really make them any money on its own. When it’s reasonably cost effective to make a better peripheral, they will. Until then, they’re going to pay more attention to their books than people’s complaints, because mice don’t drive their business.
  - wredue 3y ago
    Oh there’s no shortage of people that defend the MM. That anyone uses this mouse for an extended period is insane. It’s heavy a fuck, not ergonomic in the slightest, has insane uncomfortable edging, and cannot be used plugged in. This mouse has no redeeming qualities at all.
    - monocularvision 3y ago
      I love the touch sensitive surface and prefer it over any other mouse with a spinning disc for scrolling. Is there another mouse out there that has a similar surface? I would switch in a heartbeat because I agree with the rest of your criticisms.
grishka 3y ago
The first-gen magic trackpad is even worse. It sits so close to a USB port, it's on the same spot on my desk 99.999% of the time, it has no valid reason to be wireless, yet it needs 2 AA batteries just because. Charging and swapping them is cumbersome and it always dies when you least expect it. Bluetooth is finicky too at times. I was looking forward to a USB-C magic mouse to replace it yet it didn't come.

GlumWoodpecker 3y ago

As a hobby project: cool. But as a solution to a problem, how about not supporting companies that make ridiculously overpriced products with hugely deficient functional designs? Apple consistently makes products that work worse than their competitors', for quadruple the price, but, hey, I guess they "look nice". ...which is subjective, personally I think Apple products look absolutely atrocious, with half of screen real estate of their software attributed to padding, and all their product's surfaces the blandest possible solid colors imaginable. So when a product not only functions worse, is several times the price, but also looks bad, what's left?

favorited 3y ago
> with half of screen real estate of their software attributed to padding Padding is incredibly important for readable text content. For example, WCAG recommends that blocks of text be no more than 80 Latin glyphs wide. https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-visual-presentation.html https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-cont...
- deleted 3y ago
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ok_vimmer 3y ago
[flagged]
presbyterian 3y ago
> Apple consistently makes products that work worse than their competitors’, for quadruple the price This is also subjective. Personally, I find Apple products to work far better than the competition. I have to use Windows every day at work and I find the experience miserable, and I’ve had 3 different Android phones and always find myself returning to the iPhone. As for the price, Apple products do cost a bit more, but quadruple is quite the exaggeration. Comparable ultrabooks to the MacBook Pro (Dell XPS line, ThinkPad X1) aren’t massively far off, and they’re made of plastic, not aluminum, which makes a difference in durability in my experience. As for mobile, the iPhone is priced in line with other high-end smartphones like the Galaxy and Pixel lines.

LorenDB 3y ago

Huge respect for the RGB :)

Brajeshwar 3y ago

First, I’ve small hands. I started with the Mighty Mouse[1]. The current Magic Mouse is comfortable for my usage. The Mighty Mouse (Wireless) was the perfect one. I tried one of those Magic Mouse “enhancements” (2009-2010) -- a white silicon contraption -- that sits atop the mouse. It was handy, and I used it for a while. I eventually got used to the mouse in its form and stopped trying any modifications. I have tried the Master Series from Logitech, and I like them but don’t use all the functions. I like the simplicity of the Magic Mouse. Charging - I do it once in 45 days, or when it complains — leave it charged -- have tea, walk/run, or read. Charging was never a problem, and I believe everyone else making a lot of noise about the charging is just overblowing it. If you remember to leave it charged overnight, it needs no charging for the next month or so. 1. https://cdn.oinam.com/img/oinam/brajeshwar-apple-mighty-mouse-wired-wireless-2008-04-19.jpg https://cdn.oinam.com/img/oinam/brajeshwar-apple-mighty-mous...

giobox 3y ago
The Mighty Mouse size was nice, but not sure it was worth the constant hassle of cleaning the tiny track ball of whatever microscopic dust mote blocked it from working again and again - every single Mighty Mouse I ever owned would regularly jam up and be a pain to unjam. No other mouse I've ever owned or abused has had a button or wheel stop working, ever. I do miss the distinctive "click" Apple mice of this era made a lot though.
jonhohle 3y ago
The Mighty Mouse is almost the perfect mouse, IMHO. Its two flaws are 1) (as the sibling comment pointed out) how the scroll ball accumulates junk and is impossible to clean without cutting open the mouse and the implementation of the side buttons. Having a first party Apple mouse with real middle click support is awesome. The multi direction scrolling has become a mandatory mouse feature for me. The size and weight are fantastic. For those that have used it, and don’t know, the nearly haptic tic while scrolling is an internal speaker which provides great feedback (especially when the rollers get stuck and the clicking stops so you known it’s time to clean the ball). I find the Magic Mouse uncomfortable, it has no native middle click, no side buttons. Its best feature is that it fixed the scroll ball. I finally broke down and bought a new, old stock Mighty Mouse a few months ago. The scroll ball feels so smooth.

karmakaze 3y ago

The photos show why every magic mouse I've had always wore funny with the 'right button' getting mushy. There's only one microswitch and the right one is just a leaf spring.

zozbot234 3y ago
> There's only one microswitch Classic Apple mouse design. They never change, do they?
- narrowtux 3y ago
  Think about having one plane (the entire glass) pressing 2 microswitches. Debouncing one switch is hard enough, now you've got to debounce 2, and detect if the user was doing a really fast double click, or just pressed in the center of the mouse.
  - krater23 3y ago
    Debouncing buttons is a solved problem at all. Thinking that Apple is so good that they put the charging port out of a reason to the bottom but aren't able to debouce two buttons is silly.
  - karmakaze 3y ago
    The problem Apple created for themselves is staying true to their 'one mouse button' philosophy for too long and literally.
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  Why are you even buying that inferior hardware? Apple can’t do anything right, right?
theobromananda 3y ago
I wasn't even aware that it could do right click. The magic mouses I had seen didn't want to do that.

Retr0id 3y ago

I think there's already a solution: flat-flex QI charging pads, like this one: https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/iphone-lightning-qi-universal-wireless-charging-adapter-66612 https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/iphone-lightning-qi-universal-wi... I don't endorse that particular listing, it was just the first one in my search results. It has a QI wireless power receiver, and a right-angled lightning connector. The intended usage is to plug it into an iPhone and put a case on top - but I think it'd work just fine on the bottom of a magic mouse. You could put the power transmitter under the mouse mat and never worry about charging ever again! I haven't tried this so maybe there are practical reasons why it's a bad idea. Has anyone tried it?

djmips 3y ago
A key problem is that charging via the lightning port on a Magic Mouse disables the mouse from working. This was only fully apparent for me from skimming the linked videos in the original post. That is why the person who 'hacked' the magic mouse went to all the trouble of creating a parallel charging circuit which directly charges the battery while in operation.

ushtaritk421 3y ago

I bought a Logitech

Aleksdev 3y ago

Seriously that charging spot is ridiculous!

ryandrake 3y ago

Good for this guy, wow. Nice project. I always thought that the Magic Mouse was really the ideal technology for interacting with a Mac--just too bad that it's so unergonomic. I can't prove it, but I blame a decade of Magic Mouse use for my very painful RSI, which I now have the pleasure of experiencing using any mouse at all. Apple's input devices are beautiful, but they totally blow comfort. It's as if their industrial designers are all in their early 20s and have never experienced joint pain.

jahewson 3y ago
I suspect you’re right. I very much enjoyed the Magic Mouse but had similar issues with wrist discomfort. The neutral position of the human wrist is vertical - thumb pointing up as if shaking hands with someone. The Magic Mouse is so low-profile that it forces the wrist into an almost 90deg rotation. Ergonomically, it’s highly problematic. The solution for me was to switch to a vertical mouse (well, almost) that allows the wrist to remain neutral. Because I missed the gestures I added a Magic Trackpad on the left side of my keyboard. Of course this suffers from the same ergonomic problem but I only reach for it sporadically so the impact is minimal.
- lwhi 3y ago
  A vertical mouse was a game changer for my RSI. Stopped it in it's tracks.
- eastbound 3y ago
  Why don’t you put the trackpad vertically?
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Tried the vertical mouse, but no help. My wrist seems to be permanently fucked. I use a trackpad 100% now, no problems.
  - Epa095 3y ago
    My 2 cents: I had rsi, then I started bouldering. At first I got more pain. The original rsi, but also the 'forearm pump'. But then after maybe half a year the pain dissappeared. Not just the new pain, but the old pain as well.

raverbashing 3y ago

Yeah, I honestly don't get the hate about the magic mouse "Oh but you have to charge it upside down", yes. Every something like 3 months I have to stop for some 15min (if I don't remember to charge it first) to be able to use it for the rest of the day and then charge it when I'm not using It is really one complaint that's more internet meme than an actual grievance

al_borland 3y ago
For a company as obsessed with design as Apple, it's a bad design. A mouse sitting upside-down, or on its side, on a desk is not exactly elegant. Even if it's just for a short period of time every 3 months, it's still an ugly solution. It's on par with the Apple Pencil that charged in the bottom of the iPad. A MagSafe connection to the front of the mouse seems like it would be much better. I have an old AA version of the Magic Mouse, I'd much rather use that over the current Magic Mouse, though I currently use a Logitech. If they ever move the charging port off the bottom, I might give the Apple mouse another look.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  > A MagSafe connection to the front of the mouse seems like it would be much better. Yes, but even that would change the aesthetic of the mouse when right-side up. Though yes, I like your suggestion > It's on par with the Apple Pencil that charged in the bottom of the iPad. That's probably worse though. And yes I agree it is bad Basically yes, while charging upside down is ugly I think they kinda accept it because it's not "while in use" (also there might have been some space or other design constraints, etc)
  - lloeki 3y ago
    I think GP might have suggested a flush connection that would allow the mouse to stay flat and even operable while charging. In any case, given the thinness of Lightning, I still don't see how it would be impossibly ugly to have had such a connector at the top end of the mouse, turning it into a wired one during charge. The current Magic Mouse design is a compromised "plywood on the back of a chest of drawers" design. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpenter-making-a-beautiful-chest-of-drawers https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/445621-when-you-re-a-carpen...

firexcy 3y ago

My contrarian view is that the Magic Mouse _can_ be ergonomic as long as you use to be keyboard-centric and treat the Magic Mouse primarily as an extra-large scroll wheel. Then you'll find the scrolling experience with the Magic Mouse is even better than one with a traditional mouse or a trackpad because you can speed-scroll with any finger, at any angle, and with minimal frictions. I especially enjoy scrolling with the right tip of my ring finger.

mission_failed 3y ago
So, the magic mouse is fine to use if you don't use it as a mouse...? I can't decide which is more appropriate, "Think different" or "you're holding it wrong"
- tempodox 3y ago
  I do have a mouse pad that says “Think different” (from the previous millennium) but none that says “You're holding it wrong”. That's a serious gap that any competent mouse pad producer should hasten to fill.
- Loggias 3y ago
  [dead]
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  Reminder: he never said “you’re holding it wrong”
  - rasz 3y ago
    You are right, he said: >Gizmodo put their video on the web people were touching x marks the spot here and they were seeing a large drop in bars > doesn't seem like a good idea if you can touch your phone one particularly grip your phone in a certain way and the bars go way down and the fix was adding hysteresis to Cellular signal meter so it wont immediately react, no bars going down on screen = fixed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSLZ1jqhFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqSLZ1jqhFQ

Andrew018 3y ago

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jbverschoor 3y ago

It will never be ergonomic.. swiping left and right in that way is not how the body works The whole product is full of bad decisions

1B05H1N 3y ago

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

hbgl 3y ago

Maybe in the next version apple can disable the mouse when it detects that it being used in third-party plastic shell.

hahamaster 3y ago

There are thousands of mice available on the market, and almost all of them can be used on a Mac. It's strange that anyone bothers to fix any mouse. Just buy a mouse that fits your requirements.

kojeovo 3y ago
it's a hobby project..
blamazon 3y ago
What if one of my requirements is that the top of the mouse supports multi touch gestures?
lemper 3y ago
bro, let him cook. he hasn't cross the line.
- hahamaster 3y ago
  I’m not saying he shouldn’t do it, I’m just saying it’s strange. Magic Mouse was designed to be held with two fingers and moved with the wrist. Personally I would never buy a product completely, diametrically different from what I need and then adapt it. But I guess some people like the challenge and I have no problem with that.
hhh 3y ago
Ivan creates a lot of great projects, it’s a hobby.
deleted 3y ago
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premysl 3y ago
Few, if any, other mice are touchpads. The Magic Mouse is more of a touchpad that happens to be capable of being used as a mouse.

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nicexe 3y ago

I have one of those wireless magic mouse that takes 2x AA batteries. The optical sensor started behaving in a weird way back in 2018 I think, so I stopped using it. I wouldn't mind risking breaking it by trying to fix the sensor (cleaning the lens from the inside is probably enough), adding a rechargeable battery (and whatever circuitry that entails) and maybe even enhancing the ergonomics if it still works after that.

robofanatic 3y ago

To me the most annoying thing about magic mouse is the placement of the charging port.

creesch 3y ago
Cool, if you read the linked article you will see that this is also being addressed :)

sunrise54 3y ago

https://mousebase.io https://mousebase.io

nrabulinski 3y ago
Except it’s not comparable because they make a case for the Magic Mouse, don’t allow charging it and use a lens to have the sensor track while this guy added a charging port and disassembled his mouse to have the sensor truly be on the surface

tzs 3y ago

In practice most people don't care about the charging port being on the bottom because even if you forget to charge it for several weeks and it actually stops working it only takes two minutes to charge it up enough for 8 hours of work. As far as ergonomics goes, I've never had any more problems with a Magic Mouse than with any other mouse including ergonomic mice. People make fun of "you're holding it wrong", but really RSI does come down to holding and manipulating things in ways that aren't good for you. What ergonomic design does is try to make it so you that you will discover and use a good way of holding the thing on your own and/or try to make it so that it is hard to hold it in a bad way. That doesn't mean that things that do not have an ergonomic design cannot be used ergonomically. It just means you might have to consciously work at holding and manipulating them safely at least until that becomes habitual. For the Magic Mouse the way I hold it has my fingers and palm and wrist in the same position they would be in if I were just resting my arm on the table. The mouse is the right size and shape to fit well in the dome make by the curve of my resting fingers and resting palm. I don't really have a grip on it. It is more caged than held. Movement is mostly moving my whole arm. My wrist has barely any movement at all. Even when scrolling the wrist barely moves. Instead my arm backs up and raises so my middle finger can bend down and scroll.

KerrAvon 3y ago
A lot of us care about the charging port being on the bottom. It’s ludicrous. I can leave any top of the line Logitech mouse plugged in all the time and never have to even think about charging.
- tzs 3y ago
  I'd bet that people who leave a wireless mouse plugged in all the time are a very tiny minority of mouse users. Most people want to use their wireless mouse wirelessly. For that vast majority the only consequence of the Magic Mouse port being on the bottom is that if they forget to charge their mouse for weeks and it dies in the middle of the day with the Magic Mouse they have to stop using the mouse for two minutes to get through the rest of the day whereas with the other mouse they would not lose those two minutes of mouse time.

costanzaDynasty 3y ago

People complain about the charging port, but I complain about having to pay extra for a black Magic Mouse.

tonymet 3y ago

The Magic Mouse charge port is deliberate. Apple knows that people would leave the cable connected if it were placed at the edge. that would undermine the wireless aesthetic.

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mig39 3y ago
And if people left it plugged in all the time, it messes with the battery life? The idea that Apple did this because they didn't know what they were doing is weird. Of course they knew what they were doing. You can charge it in a minute or two.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  It wouldn't mess with the battery life if the charger were smart, but not all of them are. Including Apple's.
ladberg 3y ago
Additionally, all the existing lightning cables would not make good mouse cords because of their length, flexibility, and lack of strain relief. Apple chose not to allow people to keep a cable connected not just for the aesthetics but also to keep them from reusing existing cables (instead of an hypothetical lightning mouse cord) and getting a poor UX.