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it's the most fickle thing musk explained his comment below in that thread and i thought it was done acceptably, he wasn't antisemitic, he just continued a con

it's the most fickle thing musk explained his comment below in that thread and i thought it was done acceptably, he wasn't antisemitic, he just continued a conversation that implied [correctly] that throughout the last ~10 years there has been a tail-wagging-the-dog relationship between what is currently the demographic with a large outcry of support for israel and the demographic with a large outcry of support for hamas. that the demographic in support of israel is usually the manipulator in this situation, and that this has usually been used against a lot of the people who actually are in support of israel in the current day. he's not wrong, its not antisemitic, and taking this stance doesn't imply you're a nazi, and certainly doesn't imply who or what kind of solution you might suppport. yet complexity is not allowed. but what's interesting here is X's apparent rise in the status of its advertisement real estate[0]. I think this will turn out positive for twitter and elon no matter what, people seem to like twitter and want it to keep being what it is. I for one look forward to the day when we can have simple conversations in public without other people panicking in response. 0. https://twitter.com/xDaily/status/1724106350584648109 https://twitter.com/xDaily/status/1724106350584648109

7e 3y ago
Richard Stallman, is that you? I didn’t think you posted on HN.
anigbrowl 3y ago
As I said yesterday, if he expressed this opinion in the abstract it wouldn't be that controversial. It's the fact that he gave an uncritical endorsement to an explicitly anti-semitic white nationalist conspiracy theory first that caused people to recoil. The more anodyne follow-up (a few tweets of Musk beefing about the ADL were deliberately making him look bad) is imho just a rhetorical gambit; it wouldn't have attracted a fraction of the attention if posted in isolation. X's apparent rise in the status of its advertisement real estate that's an interesting way to describe running more and cheaper ads to make up for the loss of revenue.
- nkozyra 3y ago
  This is the problem. He's engaging and agreeing with openly, overtly racist accounts. This colors even the most generous of interpretations.
- stainablesteel 3y ago
  you're basically saying that his intentions weren't the problem, but that points out everything that's wrong with the situation. > anti-semitic white nationalist conspiracy theory and this, is somehow an attempt to skirt around what i'd already written. its not a conspiracy theory, its not white nationalist, its not antisemitic, its just an observation of dynamics between demographics over the latest in modern history. however, there is in fact a mainstream narrative that scares people with stories of nutjob right-wing conspiracy theories. and sure they exist, in extremely small numbers. the problem is that the people who push this narrative also ignore plenty of racism and spew plenty of conspiracy theories while ignoring extremism on their own side. and anything you say that can possibly look like you're within the bottom 1% of IQ on the right-wing extreme will be used against you through the power of misrepresentation, despite not having any relation nor any appreciation of it. there's nothing within the substance of the criticism that isn't used hypocritically against who its aimed at. all i want is to be casual again. over-analyzing simple remarks to attack an individual is a sign of genuine malice, there's more written between the lines of the actions taken against him than whatever meta-conversation someone might imply exists in the background of a single tweet.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm quite clear on what I meant, thanks. all i want is to be casual again. over-analyzing simple remarks to attack an individual is a sign of genuine malice GMAFB. If Musk wants to be casual he can just have an anonymous shitposting account, and perhaps he does. You're asking that we just ignore his extremely vocal aspirations on free speech, on transforming Twitter into an 'everything app', on the commercial realities of social media data mining with all the implications for privacy, surveillance and so on, and on the fact that we're on a news website for hackers where we take pride in finding clever ways to store, sift, and exploit huge fields of data. It's asinine to expect that the guy with the not-inconsiderable personality cult also be treated as a regular goof with a bunch of low-IQ takes and immunized from criticism on that basis. Being casual is what anonymous posting is for. You can go to 4chan or wherever, shitpost, get things wrong, make an ass of yourself sometimes, and have conversations of no great consequence. I have done so for many years, and still do. Anonymous fora work because good or bad, popular or unpopular, your comments aren't tied to an identity and it frees you from a lot of ego traps as well as social restraints. Musk on the other hand is vocally against anonymity, often citing the need to fight spam (although I don't think he's sincere about this, given the way Twitter/X actually operates and the specific changes he's made around API access and how reports are handled). If he doesn't believe in anonymous shitposting, and thinks people on social media should own their posts, then it's not unreasonable for others (eg advertisers) to take teh same attitude toward him.

7e 3y ago

Richard Stallman, is that you? I didn’t think you posted on HN.

anigbrowl 3y ago

As I said yesterday, if he expressed this opinion in the abstract it wouldn't be that controversial. It's the fact that he gave an uncritical endorsement to an explicitly anti-semitic white nationalist conspiracy theory first that caused people to recoil. The more anodyne follow-up (a few tweets of Musk beefing about the ADL were deliberately making him look bad) is imho just a rhetorical gambit; it wouldn't have attracted a fraction of the attention if posted in isolation. X's apparent rise in the status of its advertisement real estate that's an interesting way to describe running more and cheaper ads to make up for the loss of revenue.

nkozyra 3y ago
This is the problem. He's engaging and agreeing with openly, overtly racist accounts. This colors even the most generous of interpretations.
stainablesteel 3y ago
you're basically saying that his intentions weren't the problem, but that points out everything that's wrong with the situation. > anti-semitic white nationalist conspiracy theory and this, is somehow an attempt to skirt around what i'd already written. its not a conspiracy theory, its not white nationalist, its not antisemitic, its just an observation of dynamics between demographics over the latest in modern history. however, there is in fact a mainstream narrative that scares people with stories of nutjob right-wing conspiracy theories. and sure they exist, in extremely small numbers. the problem is that the people who push this narrative also ignore plenty of racism and spew plenty of conspiracy theories while ignoring extremism on their own side. and anything you say that can possibly look like you're within the bottom 1% of IQ on the right-wing extreme will be used against you through the power of misrepresentation, despite not having any relation nor any appreciation of it. there's nothing within the substance of the criticism that isn't used hypocritically against who its aimed at. all i want is to be casual again. over-analyzing simple remarks to attack an individual is a sign of genuine malice, there's more written between the lines of the actions taken against him than whatever meta-conversation someone might imply exists in the background of a single tweet.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm quite clear on what I meant, thanks. all i want is to be casual again. over-analyzing simple remarks to attack an individual is a sign of genuine malice GMAFB. If Musk wants to be casual he can just have an anonymous shitposting account, and perhaps he does. You're asking that we just ignore his extremely vocal aspirations on free speech, on transforming Twitter into an 'everything app', on the commercial realities of social media data mining with all the implications for privacy, surveillance and so on, and on the fact that we're on a news website for hackers where we take pride in finding clever ways to store, sift, and exploit huge fields of data. It's asinine to expect that the guy with the not-inconsiderable personality cult also be treated as a regular goof with a bunch of low-IQ takes and immunized from criticism on that basis. Being casual is what anonymous posting is for. You can go to 4chan or wherever, shitpost, get things wrong, make an ass of yourself sometimes, and have conversations of no great consequence. I have done so for many years, and still do. Anonymous fora work because good or bad, popular or unpopular, your comments aren't tied to an identity and it frees you from a lot of ego traps as well as social restraints. Musk on the other hand is vocally against anonymity, often citing the need to fight spam (although I don't think he's sincere about this, given the way Twitter/X actually operates and the specific changes he's made around API access and how reports are handled). If he doesn't believe in anonymous shitposting, and thinks people on social media should own their posts, then it's not unreasonable for others (eg advertisers) to take teh same attitude toward him.