6 ms·

When you have the benefit of being able to move millions of people by force to build a dam, and get to produce solar panels with slave labor, it's way easier.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Those are very bad things, no doubt whatsoever, but the data shows it is unnecessary for success. US solar and battery/storage manufacturing is exploding due to Inflation Reduction Act incentives, for example. Those bad things are not an excuse to not push scaling harder faster. Automation is a substantial component of solar and battery manufacturing, and you can build that automation with willing labor earning fair compensation. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/08/14/over-155-gw-of-u-s-solar-manufacturing-announced-in-one-year/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/08/14/over-155-gw-of-u-s-so... https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/ira-at-1-us-heralds-clean-energy-manufacturing-renaissance-76610817 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... https://www.utilitydive.com/spons/ira-sets-the-stage-for-us-energy-storage-to-thrive/635665/ https://www.utilitydive.com/spons/ira-sets-the-stage-for-us-...
mandmandam 3y ago
1 in 6 American workers stay in unwanted jobs just to keep their healthcare [0]. Is that so different? Americans will tell you with a straight face that giving people free college will affect the numbers joining the military - is that so different? Also, seems to me that the 8 trillion, with a t, dollars that were spent creating terror in the middle east would have bought a few panels. To compare directly, the highest estimate for transitioning the US to 100% renewable electricity is 5.7 trillion dollars [1]. So, if we'd just killed about 600,000 fewer civilians we could afford the change. Pointing fingers at China is easier than accepting our own actions, but you know, there's a lot to be said for taking responsibility for what one can actually change. 0 - https://news.gallup.com/poll/349094/workers-stay-unwanted-job-health-benefits.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/349094/workers-stay-unwanted-jo... 1 - https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/cost-of-transitioning-to-100-percent-renewable-energy/ https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/cost-of...
- lost_tourist 3y ago
  You first point: that's not even close to being enslaved or forced to do whatever your government tells you to do under threat of imprisonment. Yes, it is very, very different.
  - dang 3y ago
    You can't use multiple accounts like this, so I've banned both of these. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - ludston 3y ago
      It's pretty concerning that there are users on this platform operating like this given what it could imply.
- manonthewall 3y ago
  You first point: that's not even close to being enslaved or forced to do whatever your government tells you to do under threat of imprisonment. Yes, it is very, very different.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    In a country where thousands of people break the law just so they can get food and a little healthcare in prison - no, it's really not.
- ludston 3y ago
  Why are there two replies to you with the same content but two user names?

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Those are very bad things, no doubt whatsoever, but the data shows it is unnecessary for success. US solar and battery/storage manufacturing is exploding due to Inflation Reduction Act incentives, for example. Those bad things are not an excuse to not push scaling harder faster. Automation is a substantial component of solar and battery manufacturing, and you can build that automation with willing labor earning fair compensation. https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/08/14/over-155-gw-of-u-s-solar-manufacturing-announced-in-one-year/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/08/14/over-155-gw-of-u-s-so... https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/ira-at-1-us-heralds-clean-energy-manufacturing-renaissance-76610817 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... https://www.utilitydive.com/spons/ira-sets-the-stage-for-us-energy-storage-to-thrive/635665/ https://www.utilitydive.com/spons/ira-sets-the-stage-for-us-...

mandmandam 3y ago

1 in 6 American workers stay in unwanted jobs just to keep their healthcare [0]. Is that so different? Americans will tell you with a straight face that giving people free college will affect the numbers joining the military - is that so different? Also, seems to me that the 8 trillion, with a t, dollars that were spent creating terror in the middle east would have bought a few panels. To compare directly, the highest estimate for transitioning the US to 100% renewable electricity is 5.7 trillion dollars [1]. So, if we'd just killed about 600,000 fewer civilians we could afford the change. Pointing fingers at China is easier than accepting our own actions, but you know, there's a lot to be said for taking responsibility for what one can actually change. 0 - https://news.gallup.com/poll/349094/workers-stay-unwanted-job-health-benefits.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/349094/workers-stay-unwanted-jo... 1 - https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/cost-of-transitioning-to-100-percent-renewable-energy/ https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/cost-of...

lost_tourist 3y ago
You first point: that's not even close to being enslaved or forced to do whatever your government tells you to do under threat of imprisonment. Yes, it is very, very different.
- dang 3y ago
  You can't use multiple accounts like this, so I've banned both of these. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - ludston 3y ago
    It's pretty concerning that there are users on this platform operating like this given what it could imply.
manonthewall 3y ago
You first point: that's not even close to being enslaved or forced to do whatever your government tells you to do under threat of imprisonment. Yes, it is very, very different.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  In a country where thousands of people break the law just so they can get food and a little healthcare in prison - no, it's really not.
ludston 3y ago
Why are there two replies to you with the same content but two user names?