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> What makes a business have government approval is two things I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are

> What makes a business have government approval is two things I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. > We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says… Actually this is just wrong. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18605814/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18605814/ “In accuracy, judges range no more widely than would be expected by chance, and the best judges are no more accurate than a stochastic mechanism would produce. When judging deception, people differ less in ability than in the inclination to regard others' statements as truthful.” So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias.

corethree 3y ago
>So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias. Could be. I'm asking you to watch that statement and judge for yourself. I don't believe or trust Elon utterly and completely. I'm not even close to being a huge fan. But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. >I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. I'm Chinese by race. I'm born in the US, grew up in the US, lived in China for years. But what I'm saying here is more common sense. Look at hollywood. There's a huge market in China for hollywood movies. So hollywood does pander to Chinas business requirements. What do you see in Hollywood movies? Do you see people fawning over the greatness of China? No. In hollywood you just see movies with complete absence of criticism against China. This is in stark contrast to the American media and cultural landscape which hollywood usually reflects accurately. https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-hollywood-sold-out-to-china/620021/ https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-holl... So just use your own eyes in all the movies you watch. Hollwood panders to China by not criticising china. They don't pander to China by praising China. That is physical evidence.
- discard124 3y ago
  > But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. Yes, and the linked paper shows that this is a reflection of your existing bias about him, and not whether he is being truthful. It means that the clip of Elon tells us nothing at all about why he’s making the statement, even if judged by experts. I don’t see how Hollywood is evidence of anything. They want their movies to have the widest audience possible, so their movie content is made as inoffensive as possible. Elon’s cars are not movies. For a counterexample, Tim Cook praises China, even as reports suggest that Apple and its shareholders are afraid of their dependence on China and are seeking to lessen it. Elon has never behaved like Hollywood, and has a long history of saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. I see no reason to think that this is any different.
  - corethree 3y ago
    >Yes, and the linked paper shows that this is a reflection of your existing bias about him, and not whether he is being truthful. It means that the clip of Elon tells us nothing at all about why he’s making the statement, even if judged by experts. Except I told you I'm not a fan of elon. I cited him because he's both vocal about his opinion in China. And unlike you both Elon and I have experience with China. You likely don't and have never even set foot in China. >I don’t see how Hollywood is evidence of anything. They want their movies to have the widest audience possible, so their movie content is made as inoffensive as possible. That's every business on the face of the earth. Even in the US they have to do that. So your own statement is basically destroying your point that Elon is pandering to China when he's just pandering to everyone. But here's the thing. In that statement he made, he said, he basically stated China is superior. So that would be pandering against the US. That's Bad for business in the US. >Elon’s cars are not movies. So? Both are business products sold for money. It's evidence of Chinas policy of only allowing products that don't criticize China. It's consistent and it's evidence. The statement I made was about products in general, not cars. So I can easily use movies to prove my point as movies are products. QED. >For a counterexample, Tim Cook praises China, even as reports suggest that Apple and its shareholders are afraid of their dependence on China and are seeking to lessen it. True but is Tim Cooks praise not real? I'd argue his praise is true AND he wants to lessen dependence on China. You shouldn't view China as a single negative entity. They are superior to the US in many ways both from a moral perspective and a technological perspective. From the otherside of the coin, the US is also superior to China in many ways both from a technological standpoint and moral standpoint. The problem with bias is that you can't see this until someone brings it up. You used Tim Cook as an example but at the time of stating that example you couldn't even consider the possibility that Tim Cook could both praise China truthfully and want to sever their dependence on China. These two concepts are orthogonal. That is unless you're biased and can only view China as something that is either black or white. >Elon has never behaved like Hollywood, and has a long history of saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. I see no reason to think that this is any different. What he said in that link I posted is what Americans don't want to hear. What person in the US wants to hear "There are more smart, hardworking people in China then there are in the US." ? Nobody wants to hear that. He's speaking to an English audience and saying things people don't want to hear. This is evidence for the fact that he's saying what he believes is true.

corethree 3y ago

>So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias. Could be. I'm asking you to watch that statement and judge for yourself. I don't believe or trust Elon utterly and completely. I'm not even close to being a huge fan. But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. >I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. I'm Chinese by race. I'm born in the US, grew up in the US, lived in China for years. But what I'm saying here is more common sense. Look at hollywood. There's a huge market in China for hollywood movies. So hollywood does pander to Chinas business requirements. What do you see in Hollywood movies? Do you see people fawning over the greatness of China? No. In hollywood you just see movies with complete absence of criticism against China. This is in stark contrast to the American media and cultural landscape which hollywood usually reflects accurately. https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-hollywood-sold-out-to-china/620021/ https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-holl... So just use your own eyes in all the movies you watch. Hollwood panders to China by not criticising china. They don't pander to China by praising China. That is physical evidence.

discard124 3y ago
> But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. Yes, and the linked paper shows that this is a reflection of your existing bias about him, and not whether he is being truthful. It means that the clip of Elon tells us nothing at all about why he’s making the statement, even if judged by experts. I don’t see how Hollywood is evidence of anything. They want their movies to have the widest audience possible, so their movie content is made as inoffensive as possible. Elon’s cars are not movies. For a counterexample, Tim Cook praises China, even as reports suggest that Apple and its shareholders are afraid of their dependence on China and are seeking to lessen it. Elon has never behaved like Hollywood, and has a long history of saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. I see no reason to think that this is any different.
- corethree 3y ago
  >Yes, and the linked paper shows that this is a reflection of your existing bias about him, and not whether he is being truthful. It means that the clip of Elon tells us nothing at all about why he’s making the statement, even if judged by experts. Except I told you I'm not a fan of elon. I cited him because he's both vocal about his opinion in China. And unlike you both Elon and I have experience with China. You likely don't and have never even set foot in China. >I don’t see how Hollywood is evidence of anything. They want their movies to have the widest audience possible, so their movie content is made as inoffensive as possible. That's every business on the face of the earth. Even in the US they have to do that. So your own statement is basically destroying your point that Elon is pandering to China when he's just pandering to everyone. But here's the thing. In that statement he made, he said, he basically stated China is superior. So that would be pandering against the US. That's Bad for business in the US. >Elon’s cars are not movies. So? Both are business products sold for money. It's evidence of Chinas policy of only allowing products that don't criticize China. It's consistent and it's evidence. The statement I made was about products in general, not cars. So I can easily use movies to prove my point as movies are products. QED. >For a counterexample, Tim Cook praises China, even as reports suggest that Apple and its shareholders are afraid of their dependence on China and are seeking to lessen it. True but is Tim Cooks praise not real? I'd argue his praise is true AND he wants to lessen dependence on China. You shouldn't view China as a single negative entity. They are superior to the US in many ways both from a moral perspective and a technological perspective. From the otherside of the coin, the US is also superior to China in many ways both from a technological standpoint and moral standpoint. The problem with bias is that you can't see this until someone brings it up. You used Tim Cook as an example but at the time of stating that example you couldn't even consider the possibility that Tim Cook could both praise China truthfully and want to sever their dependence on China. These two concepts are orthogonal. That is unless you're biased and can only view China as something that is either black or white. >Elon has never behaved like Hollywood, and has a long history of saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. I see no reason to think that this is any different. What he said in that link I posted is what Americans don't want to hear. What person in the US wants to hear "There are more smart, hardworking people in China then there are in the US." ? Nobody wants to hear that. He's speaking to an English audience and saying things people don't want to hear. This is evidence for the fact that he's saying what he believes is true.