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That's not what the original comment said though. The comment was about companies losing money, not about gaining certain freedoms.

by pb7 3y ago

smoldesu 3y ago
I didn't write that comment :P My point was less related to the cause-and-effect, and more focused on the undeniable need for user control. Apple is the reason why the Digital Market Act exists - go read it, you'll very quickly realize that the language targets them. It also (rightfully) implicates Microsoft and Google, but it very explicitly paints Apple's relationship with the iPhone as a "Gatekeeper" situation. The reasoning should be obvious; OEMs don't deserve that level of control. Apple could implement all of their meaningful features competitively, as-is, without being the sole trusted distributor of iPhone apps. Plus, even if you love Apple and hate Europe, features like this let you meaningfully resist European mandates. If Europe demands that SMS apps have a backdoor (fancy that), Apple users would have options that aren't provided by Apple. In a world where FAANG is bought and owned by the US government and gets regularly subpoenaed for data, that might be an affordance you value.
- discard124 3y ago
  > If Europe demands that SMS apps have a backdoor (fancy that), Apple users would have options that aren't provided by Apple. This makes no sense. If Europe makes rules about backdoors or outlawing E2E, they will apply to every app store and every app, not just Apple.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Makes sense to me. If E2EE got banned, I could go download Free and Open Source applications from the internet that circumvent that ban. That's how it works on all of my computers right now, if Apple still demands override controls after letting you install third-party apps, then maybe we'll need a second Digital Market Act. I reckon we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
    - dwaite 3y ago
      Doesn’t track with me. If the EU legislates the market they can legislate blocking those E2E apps from the internet. For instance, require apps to be installed from alternative marketplaces and not just sideloaded, and heavily regulate alternative marketplaces.
    - discard124 3y ago
      More likely, the EU will demand that alternative stores be regulated and that override controls exist, precisely so that they can outlaw E2EE and block other apps they want to restrict. The EU isn’t doing any of this to support some principle of end-user freedom. It’s all just a consequence of lobbying and politics. They aren’t going to do anything that reduces their own control.

That's not what the original comment said though. The comment was about companies losing money, not about gaining certain freedoms.

by pb7 3y ago

That's not what the original comment said though. The comment was about companies losing money, not about gaining certain freedoms.

smoldesu 3y ago

I didn't write that comment :P My point was less related to the cause-and-effect, and more focused on the undeniable need for user control. Apple is the reason why the Digital Market Act exists - go read it, you'll very quickly realize that the language targets them. It also (rightfully) implicates Microsoft and Google, but it very explicitly paints Apple's relationship with the iPhone as a "Gatekeeper" situation. The reasoning should be obvious; OEMs don't deserve that level of control. Apple could implement all of their meaningful features competitively, as-is, without being the sole trusted distributor of iPhone apps. Plus, even if you love Apple and hate Europe, features like this let you meaningfully resist European mandates. If Europe demands that SMS apps have a backdoor (fancy that), Apple users would have options that aren't provided by Apple. In a world where FAANG is bought and owned by the US government and gets regularly subpoenaed for data, that might be an affordance you value.

discard124 3y ago
> If Europe demands that SMS apps have a backdoor (fancy that), Apple users would have options that aren't provided by Apple. This makes no sense. If Europe makes rules about backdoors or outlawing E2E, they will apply to every app store and every app, not just Apple.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Makes sense to me. If E2EE got banned, I could go download Free and Open Source applications from the internet that circumvent that ban. That's how it works on all of my computers right now, if Apple still demands override controls after letting you install third-party apps, then maybe we'll need a second Digital Market Act. I reckon we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
  - dwaite 3y ago
    Doesn’t track with me. If the EU legislates the market they can legislate blocking those E2E apps from the internet. For instance, require apps to be installed from alternative marketplaces and not just sideloaded, and heavily regulate alternative marketplaces.
  - discard124 3y ago
    More likely, the EU will demand that alternative stores be regulated and that override controls exist, precisely so that they can outlaw E2EE and block other apps they want to restrict. The EU isn’t doing any of this to support some principle of end-user freedom. It’s all just a consequence of lobbying and politics. They aren’t going to do anything that reduces their own control.