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Or he’s just saying what he needs to say to negotiate access to the market.

by discard124 3y ago

corethree 3y ago
No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. There's no incentive to make him say it.
- discard124 3y ago
  > No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. Can he? Are you an expert on what it takes to gain the Chinese government's approval, or the continuing goodwill needed for massive capital projects?
  - corethree 3y ago
    Of course he can. What makes a business have government approval is two things. 1. economic viability. 2. No visible opinion against China. Your saying there's something else: 3. Visible support FOR China. Number 3 is not required. You don't see Marvel movies and hollywood pandering to Chinas greatness do you? You only see an absense of dissent against China. Here take a look at the clip. We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says: https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 Also one day I recommend you go to China and see what's going on there with your own eyes. It's like going to Yosemite half dome vs. looking at pictures of it. The difference between the US and China will floor you.
    - discard124 3y ago
      > What makes a business have government approval is two things I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. > We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says… Actually this is just wrong. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18605814/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18605814/ “In accuracy, judges range no more widely than would be expected by chance, and the best judges are no more accurate than a stochastic mechanism would produce. When judging deception, people differ less in ability than in the inclination to regard others' statements as truthful.” So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias.
      - corethree 3y ago
        >So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias. Could be. I'm asking you to watch that statement and judge for yourself. I don't believe or trust Elon utterly and completely. I'm not even close to being a huge fan. But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. >I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. I'm Chinese by race. I'm born in the US, grew up in the US, lived in China for years. But what I'm saying here is more common sense. Look at hollywood. There's a huge market in China for hollywood movies. So hollywood does pander to Chinas business requirements. What do you see in Hollywood movies? Do you see people fawning over the greatness of China? No. In hollywood you just see movies with complete absence of criticism against China. This is in stark contrast to the American media and cultural landscape which hollywood usually reflects accurately. https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-hollywood-sold-out-to-china/620021/ https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-holl... So just use your own eyes in all the movies you watch. Hollwood panders to China by not criticising china. They don't pander to China by praising China. That is physical evidence.
        discard124 3y ago
        > But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. Yes, and the linked paper shows that this is a reflection of your existing bias about him, and not whether he is being truthful. It means that the clip of Elon tells us nothing at all about why he’s making the statement, even if judged by experts. I don’t see how Hollywood is evidence of anything. They want their movies to have the widest audience possible, so their movie content is made as inoffensive as possible. Elon’s cars are not movies. For a counterexample, Tim Cook praises China, even as reports suggest that Apple and its shareholders are afraid of their dependence on China and are seeking to lessen it. Elon has never behaved like Hollywood, and has a long history of saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. I see no reason to think that this is any different.
        3y ago

Or he’s just saying what he needs to say to negotiate access to the market.

corethree 3y ago

No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. There's no incentive to make him say it.

discard124 3y ago
> No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. Can he? Are you an expert on what it takes to gain the Chinese government's approval, or the continuing goodwill needed for massive capital projects?
- corethree 3y ago
  Of course he can. What makes a business have government approval is two things. 1. economic viability. 2. No visible opinion against China. Your saying there's something else: 3. Visible support FOR China. Number 3 is not required. You don't see Marvel movies and hollywood pandering to Chinas greatness do you? You only see an absense of dissent against China. Here take a look at the clip. We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says: https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 Also one day I recommend you go to China and see what's going on there with your own eyes. It's like going to Yosemite half dome vs. looking at pictures of it. The difference between the US and China will floor you.
  - discard124 3y ago
    > What makes a business have government approval is two things I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. > We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says… Actually this is just wrong. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18605814/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18605814/ “In accuracy, judges range no more widely than would be expected by chance, and the best judges are no more accurate than a stochastic mechanism would produce. When judging deception, people differ less in ability than in the inclination to regard others' statements as truthful.” So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias.
    - corethree 3y ago
      >So all this tells us is that you are someone who personally finds Elon credible. Given your own stated views of China, this seems like just confirmation bias. Could be. I'm asking you to watch that statement and judge for yourself. I don't believe or trust Elon utterly and completely. I'm not even close to being a huge fan. But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. >I see no evidence that you have the expertise to make this claim. It’s just an opinion you are stating as fact. I'm Chinese by race. I'm born in the US, grew up in the US, lived in China for years. But what I'm saying here is more common sense. Look at hollywood. There's a huge market in China for hollywood movies. So hollywood does pander to Chinas business requirements. What do you see in Hollywood movies? Do you see people fawning over the greatness of China? No. In hollywood you just see movies with complete absence of criticism against China. This is in stark contrast to the American media and cultural landscape which hollywood usually reflects accurately. https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-hollywood-sold-out-to-china/620021/ https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/how-holl... So just use your own eyes in all the movies you watch. Hollwood panders to China by not criticising china. They don't pander to China by praising China. That is physical evidence.
      - discard124 3y ago
        > But from watching that statement I do both agree with him and believe he is being honest in that specific case. Yes, and the linked paper shows that this is a reflection of your existing bias about him, and not whether he is being truthful. It means that the clip of Elon tells us nothing at all about why he’s making the statement, even if judged by experts. I don’t see how Hollywood is evidence of anything. They want their movies to have the widest audience possible, so their movie content is made as inoffensive as possible. Elon’s cars are not movies. For a counterexample, Tim Cook praises China, even as reports suggest that Apple and its shareholders are afraid of their dependence on China and are seeking to lessen it. Elon has never behaved like Hollywood, and has a long history of saying whatever he thinks people want to hear. I see no reason to think that this is any different.
        3y ago