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Energy efficiency is not the only variable that matters. Walking to my grocery store would take almost two hours each way. Biking would take 30 minutes each dir

Energy efficiency is not the only variable that matters. Walking to my grocery store would take almost two hours each way. Biking would take 30 minutes each direction. Driving is 14 minutes each way, and is the only feasible way I can get groceries when I have my kids in tow (which sometimes is a necessity).

stetrain 3y ago
Of course. If in the big picture we want fewer people to need to take a car for each trip, it would be a good idea to have towns and cities where grocery stores and houses are closer together. And of course not everyone wants to live in such a place, but plenty of people would. And in the US this is fairly rare compared to many other parts of the world.
- raffraffraff 3y ago
  Who wouldn't want to live close to the grocery store? Here in Dublin I live in a house with gardens front and back, 5km from the center of the city, with a grassy park in front of my house (football field size), yet I can walk to 4 different supermarkets. The furthest is about 15m walk, the nearest is 10m. And I've got a few small convenience shops even closer (like, under 5m walk). This is what I call "perfect", and I don't understand why someone wouldn't want this. Unfortunately they stopped building communities like this in the 1950s, but they sprawl for miles around Dublin, and I consider myself lucky to be able to live here. I've visited cities in the Midwest of the US and found them to be like hell. Can't walk anywhere.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    Oh I would definitely prefer it. I think a lot of people would. So many Americans haven't lived that life though that it can be hard to imagine.
dublinben 3y ago
How inefficient is it that your grocery store is 5 miles away? Everyone should have a grocery store within a 5 minute walk of where they live.
- smt88 3y ago
  A very tiny number of people in the US live a 5 min walk from a grocery store. Many people live within 5 miles of one, but usually in denser areas where 5 miles could easily take 30-60 min of travel.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    Right, but in denser areas it's kind of crazy that more people aren't within 1-2 miles of a grocery store.
    - smt88 3y ago
      In my city, everyone I know lives within 1 mile of a grocery store, but they drive anyway. Many have kids and their groceries take up a lot of space, and they don't have the leisure time to spend on walking anyway.
  - dublinben 3y ago
    >A very tiny number of people in the US live a 5 min walk from a grocery store. That's exactly the problem. There needs to be more housing built near grocery stores, and more grocery stores built where the housing is, instead of 5 miles away.
  - michpoch 3y ago
    So how does it work? How do you e.g. get your fresh bread in the morning? Are there some local community bakieries instead?
    - smt88 3y ago
      Americans almost never buy fresh bread. We buy packaged bread with preservatives that lasts about a week (much longer if frozen or refrigerated). Most of us don't go to the grocery store more than once or twice a week. When we do, it's often a big purchase that you can't carry back in your hands or on a small bike. You'd need something with more cargo space.
foobarian 3y ago
It also helps if it's not raining, and when there are no slippery surface conditions.
michpoch 3y ago
Of course, many people forget that there are folks living in villages / remote areas like you.
adrianN 3y ago
I’d never even consider living anywhere where it‘d take me 15 minutes to the grocery store no matter what mode of transport. How long is your commute? I have like ten grocery stores in fifteen minute cycling distance, the closest is two minutes away.
- baryphonic 3y ago
  I work from home, so my commute is 0 minutes XD

stetrain 3y ago

Of course. If in the big picture we want fewer people to need to take a car for each trip, it would be a good idea to have towns and cities where grocery stores and houses are closer together. And of course not everyone wants to live in such a place, but plenty of people would. And in the US this is fairly rare compared to many other parts of the world.

raffraffraff 3y ago
Who wouldn't want to live close to the grocery store? Here in Dublin I live in a house with gardens front and back, 5km from the center of the city, with a grassy park in front of my house (football field size), yet I can walk to 4 different supermarkets. The furthest is about 15m walk, the nearest is 10m. And I've got a few small convenience shops even closer (like, under 5m walk). This is what I call "perfect", and I don't understand why someone wouldn't want this. Unfortunately they stopped building communities like this in the 1950s, but they sprawl for miles around Dublin, and I consider myself lucky to be able to live here. I've visited cities in the Midwest of the US and found them to be like hell. Can't walk anywhere.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Oh I would definitely prefer it. I think a lot of people would. So many Americans haven't lived that life though that it can be hard to imagine.

dublinben 3y ago

How inefficient is it that your grocery store is 5 miles away? Everyone should have a grocery store within a 5 minute walk of where they live.

smt88 3y ago
A very tiny number of people in the US live a 5 min walk from a grocery store. Many people live within 5 miles of one, but usually in denser areas where 5 miles could easily take 30-60 min of travel.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  Right, but in denser areas it's kind of crazy that more people aren't within 1-2 miles of a grocery store.
  - smt88 3y ago
    In my city, everyone I know lives within 1 mile of a grocery store, but they drive anyway. Many have kids and their groceries take up a lot of space, and they don't have the leisure time to spend on walking anyway.
- dublinben 3y ago
  >A very tiny number of people in the US live a 5 min walk from a grocery store. That's exactly the problem. There needs to be more housing built near grocery stores, and more grocery stores built where the housing is, instead of 5 miles away.
- michpoch 3y ago
  So how does it work? How do you e.g. get your fresh bread in the morning? Are there some local community bakieries instead?
  - smt88 3y ago
    Americans almost never buy fresh bread. We buy packaged bread with preservatives that lasts about a week (much longer if frozen or refrigerated). Most of us don't go to the grocery store more than once or twice a week. When we do, it's often a big purchase that you can't carry back in your hands or on a small bike. You'd need something with more cargo space.

foobarian 3y ago

It also helps if it's not raining, and when there are no slippery surface conditions.

michpoch 3y ago

Of course, many people forget that there are folks living in villages / remote areas like you.

adrianN 3y ago

I’d never even consider living anywhere where it‘d take me 15 minutes to the grocery store no matter what mode of transport. How long is your commute? I have like ten grocery stores in fifteen minute cycling distance, the closest is two minutes away.

baryphonic 3y ago
I work from home, so my commute is 0 minutes XD