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China wants to be a semiconductor leader meanwhile Taiwan produces 60 percent of the world's semiconductors and 90 percent of the most advanced ones.

blackbear_ 3y ago
Yes. Now connect the dots...
- gniv 3y ago
  Everybody connects the dots differently. I personally would like to see TSMC (and ASML, and Intel) help China achieve this goal. It's not all black and white. They can help without giving away all their secrets.
  - baranoff 3y ago
    But why do you want that?
- bee_rider 3y ago
  Getting Taiwan to join unwillingly, aka conquest, would probably end up killing the engineers that make those devices and destroying the factories. This is one of the advantages of a high-skill economy, the value is in the people, not the natural resources. So, they’ll have to convince Taiwan to join willingly. Which basically seems like fair game, I mean countries should be allowed to form unions and join together if they want. It also seems extremely unlikely to happen given their history. I’m under the impression that the main threat to Taiwan from China is more that China might do something basically irrational; the existence of Taiwan is sort of unfinished business from their point of view, and stoking the flames there is an easy way for politicians in China to appeal to nationalism. Anyway, as wildly dangerous as it all seems, everybody thankfully seems quietly devoted to not actually escalating it too far, thankfully.
- Qiu_Zhanxuan 3y ago
  All the more reasons to leave Taiwan intact. I hope so.
Kye 3y ago
Where Taiwan is today started with an intentional and long-term plan like this one.
- zyang 3y ago
  Taiwan doesn't own any IP behind the semiconductor manufacturing pipeline. China was going down the same path until it was interrupted by US's chip war. Now it's forced to develop its own lithography machines and software. It's a massive own goal by US politicians.
  - Kye 3y ago
    That doesn't really contradict the point. Taiwan's plan was to become the semiconductor manufacturer for the world (possibly to make it indispensable enough to discourage mainland aggression), and they did it. Focus is on the need for long-term plans for stuff like this, not the minutia of who owns what. China appears to intend to improve on that plan with an eye toward ownership of the entire pipeline.
  - a012 3y ago
    > Now it's forced to develop its own lithography machines and software. It's a massive own goal by US politicians. Erh, "forced" yes, but "develop its own" is not. Except you call stealing IP is "develop" too, e.g.: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/engineer-who-fled-charges-of-stealing-chip-technology-in-us-now-thrives-in-china-1.1774889 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/engineer-who-fled-charges-of-ste... https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/5/4/taiwan-is-trying-to-thwart-chinas-efforts-to-poach-tech-talent https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/5/4/taiwan-is-trying-...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

blackbear_ 3y ago

Yes. Now connect the dots...

gniv 3y ago
Everybody connects the dots differently. I personally would like to see TSMC (and ASML, and Intel) help China achieve this goal. It's not all black and white. They can help without giving away all their secrets.
- baranoff 3y ago
  But why do you want that?
bee_rider 3y ago
Getting Taiwan to join unwillingly, aka conquest, would probably end up killing the engineers that make those devices and destroying the factories. This is one of the advantages of a high-skill economy, the value is in the people, not the natural resources. So, they’ll have to convince Taiwan to join willingly. Which basically seems like fair game, I mean countries should be allowed to form unions and join together if they want. It also seems extremely unlikely to happen given their history. I’m under the impression that the main threat to Taiwan from China is more that China might do something basically irrational; the existence of Taiwan is sort of unfinished business from their point of view, and stoking the flames there is an easy way for politicians in China to appeal to nationalism. Anyway, as wildly dangerous as it all seems, everybody thankfully seems quietly devoted to not actually escalating it too far, thankfully.
Qiu_Zhanxuan 3y ago
All the more reasons to leave Taiwan intact. I hope so.

Kye 3y ago

Where Taiwan is today started with an intentional and long-term plan like this one.

zyang 3y ago
Taiwan doesn't own any IP behind the semiconductor manufacturing pipeline. China was going down the same path until it was interrupted by US's chip war. Now it's forced to develop its own lithography machines and software. It's a massive own goal by US politicians.
- Kye 3y ago
  That doesn't really contradict the point. Taiwan's plan was to become the semiconductor manufacturer for the world (possibly to make it indispensable enough to discourage mainland aggression), and they did it. Focus is on the need for long-term plans for stuff like this, not the minutia of who owns what. China appears to intend to improve on that plan with an eye toward ownership of the entire pipeline.
- a012 3y ago
  > Now it's forced to develop its own lithography machines and software. It's a massive own goal by US politicians. Erh, "forced" yes, but "develop its own" is not. Except you call stealing IP is "develop" too, e.g.: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/engineer-who-fled-charges-of-stealing-chip-technology-in-us-now-thrives-in-china-1.1774889 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/engineer-who-fled-charges-of-ste... https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/5/4/taiwan-is-trying-to-thwart-chinas-efforts-to-poach-tech-talent https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/5/4/taiwan-is-trying-...
deleted 3y ago
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