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Manufacturing in the US will never be as good as china. Those attempts at moving jobs here are ultimately attempts at failure. The most likely scenario is that

Manufacturing in the US will never be as good as china. Those attempts at moving jobs here are ultimately attempts at failure. The most likely scenario is that companies are trying to find some other country to exploit.

ajmurmann 3y ago
What do you mean by "good"? Quality, versatility, speed, price?
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Price: Cost of labor is still orders of magnitudes cheaper in China. Quality: The west has the better part of a century's worth of catching up to do in know-how. Speed: See above. Also tighter government regulations, for better or worse. Versatility: See above. As it turns out, dumping domestic manufacturing capability didn't come without significant costs.
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    This seems largely true. I do wonder about "The west has the better part of a century's worth of catching up to do in know-how.". Does this truly extend to the West? Manufacturing in Germany seems alive and very healthy for more advanced products. Not sure about other European countries. I also understand that Mexico actually is very good for high value-add manufacturing.
- corethree 3y ago
  The intersection of all three. The overall metric. Obviously if we make everything expensive and take 3x longer we can do better in the quality category. But attempting to move at the same speed will make us do things at a lower quality and/or higher price. Also we likely don't even have the ability to move as fast as china.
edgyquant 3y ago
Chinas manufacturing is only “good” because we offshored US manufacturing to it. Undoing this will result in the US regaining this capacity. You can make arguments about pricing, but luckily the political class is realizing there are more important things.
- corethree 3y ago
  No the US will never move or learn as fast as china. It's just the overall mentality there you have to see it to know what I mean. Look up what Elon musk has to say about China. He gets it because he's seen it.
  - discard124 3y ago
    Or he’s just saying what he needs to say to negotiate access to the market.
    - corethree 3y ago
      No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. There's no incentive to make him say it.
      - discard124 3y ago
        > No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. Can he? Are you an expert on what it takes to gain the Chinese government's approval, or the continuing goodwill needed for massive capital projects?
        corethree 3y ago
        Of course he can. What makes a business have government approval is two things. 1. economic viability. 2. No visible opinion against China. Your saying there's something else: 3. Visible support FOR China. Number 3 is not required. You don't see Marvel movies and hollywood pandering to Chinas greatness do you? You only see an absense of dissent against China. Here take a look at the clip. We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says: https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 Also one day I recommend you go to China and see what's going on there with your own eyes. It's like going to Yosemite half dome vs. looking at pictures of it. The difference between the US and China will floor you.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> Manufacturing in the US will never be as good as china. There's a very entertaining book called "Poorly Made in China" that will quickly disabuse you of such notions.
- corethree 3y ago
  Summarize the findings here and cite the actual evidence if you can. Throwing a random book recommendation that I have to purchase to read is something that just doesn't move the conversational needle if you know what I mean.
  - discard124 3y ago
    How about you go first. You didn’t even provide a book recommendation to support your claim.
    - corethree 3y ago
      No I provided reasoning. Better to provide reasoning then cite some reasoning that can't be read because I'm not going to spend money to buy a book.
      - discard124 3y ago
        Actually you didn't provide any reasoning. You just made a statement without any supporting logic.
        corethree 3y ago
        Statements are reasoning. You can't transfer logical information without making a statement. Anything is better then a link that can't be read. That offers nothing it's even lower then just a "statement" This is getting into combative territory here. We both need to end it.
        3y ago

ajmurmann 3y ago

What do you mean by "good"? Quality, versatility, speed, price?

Dalewyn 3y ago
Price: Cost of labor is still orders of magnitudes cheaper in China. Quality: The west has the better part of a century's worth of catching up to do in know-how. Speed: See above. Also tighter government regulations, for better or worse. Versatility: See above. As it turns out, dumping domestic manufacturing capability didn't come without significant costs.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  This seems largely true. I do wonder about "The west has the better part of a century's worth of catching up to do in know-how.". Does this truly extend to the West? Manufacturing in Germany seems alive and very healthy for more advanced products. Not sure about other European countries. I also understand that Mexico actually is very good for high value-add manufacturing.
corethree 3y ago
The intersection of all three. The overall metric. Obviously if we make everything expensive and take 3x longer we can do better in the quality category. But attempting to move at the same speed will make us do things at a lower quality and/or higher price. Also we likely don't even have the ability to move as fast as china.

edgyquant 3y ago

Chinas manufacturing is only “good” because we offshored US manufacturing to it. Undoing this will result in the US regaining this capacity. You can make arguments about pricing, but luckily the political class is realizing there are more important things.

corethree 3y ago
No the US will never move or learn as fast as china. It's just the overall mentality there you have to see it to know what I mean. Look up what Elon musk has to say about China. He gets it because he's seen it.
- discard124 3y ago
  Or he’s just saying what he needs to say to negotiate access to the market.
  - corethree 3y ago
    No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. There's no incentive to make him say it.
    - discard124 3y ago
      > No. He can keep silent and still have access to the market. Can he? Are you an expert on what it takes to gain the Chinese government's approval, or the continuing goodwill needed for massive capital projects?
      - corethree 3y ago
        Of course he can. What makes a business have government approval is two things. 1. economic viability. 2. No visible opinion against China. Your saying there's something else: 3. Visible support FOR China. Number 3 is not required. You don't see Marvel movies and hollywood pandering to Chinas greatness do you? You only see an absense of dissent against China. Here take a look at the clip. We all have the ability to judge tonality and the detail Elon puts into that statement to make the qualitative judgement call whether he's pandering or he believes in what he says: https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 https://youtu.be/JN3KPFbWCy8?t=1308 Also one day I recommend you go to China and see what's going on there with your own eyes. It's like going to Yosemite half dome vs. looking at pictures of it. The difference between the US and China will floor you.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> Manufacturing in the US will never be as good as china. There's a very entertaining book called "Poorly Made in China" that will quickly disabuse you of such notions.

corethree 3y ago
Summarize the findings here and cite the actual evidence if you can. Throwing a random book recommendation that I have to purchase to read is something that just doesn't move the conversational needle if you know what I mean.
- discard124 3y ago
  How about you go first. You didn’t even provide a book recommendation to support your claim.
  - corethree 3y ago
    No I provided reasoning. Better to provide reasoning then cite some reasoning that can't be read because I'm not going to spend money to buy a book.
    - discard124 3y ago
      Actually you didn't provide any reasoning. You just made a statement without any supporting logic.
      - corethree 3y ago
        Statements are reasoning. You can't transfer logical information without making a statement. Anything is better then a link that can't be read. That offers nothing it's even lower then just a "statement" This is getting into combative territory here. We both need to end it.
        3y ago