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Apple TV "single core" A5 actually has two cores, one is off
- untog 15y agoThe title isn't quite right. From the article: Either Apple is only utilizing one core or they are binning parts So, there are possibly two cores, but it's not confirmed.
- DarkShikari 15y ago"Only utilizing one core" would mean that the software only uses one, but the hardware has two. "Binning parts" means they're either actually hardware-disabling ("diking out") the extra core, or the extra core was bad to begin with (making use of otherwise bad chips). If those images are real, both cores are definitely on the chip, but whether one is hardware-disabled or not is not certain.
- lukifer 15y agoGiven how many A5s they produce and the low cost of the Apple TV, my money's on the latter.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- robryan 15y agoWould make more sense to software disable it? Then when new hardware comes out the older hardware can be upgraded to support a new OS and utilise the second core rather than being left behind.
- jonhohle 15y agoiOS is already a pre-emptive, multi-processing OS. It would have no problem using a second core.
- jevinskie 15y agoWouldn't it make more sense to enable it from the get go if it is really available and not locked out for yield purposes?
- msbarnett 15y agoYeah. The simplest and most plausible explanation here is that they're using the Apple TV's relatively low performance demands as a way to get some use out of A5s with defective cores
- mrleinad 15y agoNot if you're planning to advertise the next version of your product as "now it has a dual-core processor"
- Steko 15y agoAs mentioned if they have switched all their 4S production over to this chip they may be able to support their Apple TV line primarily with dies that have a borked processor (otherwise those get thrown out). In that case only upgrading a portion of the people who bought Apple TVs with a software update might be counterproductive.
- mturmon 15y agoAgree. It does seem like the images are real, because apparently the site is in the business of selling very high-res versions of such chips: http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/report-formats/basic-benchmarking/die-photos http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/r... "Die photos are available in the Chipworks Report Store at top metal and lower metal/poly"
- jgw 15y agoChipworks are in the business of all manner of reverse-engineering silicon. It's a pretty interesting process. Sadly, it's one of the few semiconductor segments in which Ottawa, where I live, is still something of a leader. And, weirdly, the owner of the company used to live in the condo below me.
- senthilnayagam 15y agoApple TV was not about profit, Another possibility they might do a software update which would increase the performance (by activating the second core) when some new capabilities(server/cloud side) are available
- tiles 15y agoThat sounds bizarre to do with products in the wild. With chip yield being so fickle at such high concentrations, is having a core being disabled for most of the products' lifestyle a bad idea to activate suddenly, in case one core wasn't functioning properly?
- aaronbee 15y agoIf Apple plans on enabling the second core with a software update then they would have tested both cores during manufacturing.
- mikeash 15y agoDisabling hardware and then enabling it through software later to pretend that it's an update isn't how Apple operates and would be a really weird thing for them to do. The only thing I can think of that even comes close is when some Macs shipped with really early draft 802.11n hardware when the software wasn't ready, so they only supported 802.11g until a software update was made later. However, that was a case of the software and spec actually not being ready yet, not simply a matter of disabling something that would otherwise work fine just to have something to brag about later.
- jodrellblank 15y agoIt wouldn't be unprecedented for them to release an update which enables features which were always in a chip but were unusable before, although it's not an identical situation: http://blog.macsales.com/9102-secret-firmware-lets-late-08-macbooks-use-8gb http://blog.macsales.com/9102-secret-firmware-lets-late-08-m...
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- citricsquid 15y agoNot related to the subject matter, but I bought an Apple TV just after the new generation was released (last week) and it is probably the best purchase I've made for my media set up. The ability to just play stuff straight from itunes on my display device (projector) wirelessly is amazing. Really cool piece of technology, which I had never heard about before I went looking for it. Apple TV seems very under advertised / talked about.
- dman 15y agoXBMC supports Airplay too - which seems to be even more under advertised. I only discovered this last week and have been enjoying it ever since.
- peterhajas 15y agoDoes it support AirPlayed video content, or just audio?
- dman 15y agoSupports audio and non-drmed video
- orky56 15y agoIt supports Airplay but not mirroring, which is unique to the latest AppleTV.
- matthew-wegner 15y agoMy guess is XBMC will add this soon. AirServer has mirroring support now (Mac OS X AirPlay server): http://www.airserverapp.com/ http://www.airserverapp.com/
- gamble 15y agoI really like mine as well, but for most people it's probably not the best streaming box on the market. I also have a Boxee for the codecs AppleTV doesn't support, and when I bought a streamer for my inlaws as a Christmas gift the Boxee is what I got them. It even does Airplay in the latest firmware.
- icegreentea 15y agoI really doubt that it's just the case of a software update to unlock cores. Beyond the questionable benefit of that second core, it's likely the reason that one core is running disabled (however it is) is cause Apple is trying out a new manufacturing process. Likely yields weren't consistent enough.
- stock_toaster 15y agoI agree. My hunch is yields and they will use the higher quality (verified both cores working) for the iphone5 expected to come out later this year, or maybe for the ipanel tv thing that is rumored.
- MaysonL 15y agoInteresting that the same part is now being used in iPads 2. Sounds like they're getting ready for the next iPhone, maybe a speed bump for the retinal iPad.
- pwthornton 15y agoI'd like to see if the new iPad 2s get better battery life. It stands to reason that they would, but Apple doesn't really talk about the iPad 2 anymore. I'm not willing to by an iPad 2 just to perform this test but some tech sites should do some battery benchmarks on the new iPad 2. It makes sense to me that Apple is testing out yields for the next iPhone. This new, smaller manufacturing process will allow Apple to put LTE in the next iPhone by having the CPU take up less space and consume less power. I don't envision a speed bump to the Retina iPad this year. Rather, I expect the iPad to be revised again next year. It should be on the new, smaller manufacturing process, but I'd expect the new iPad to be ARM A15 based, not A9 based like Apple's current iOS products. The next iPad may have double the CPU power while also getting better battery life. In fact, with the new GPUs that Apple will be using next year and the new CPUs, I expect the next iPad to be more powerful than the XBO 360 and PS3. That'll be a very interesting day for gaming.
- Danieru 15y agoThe cpu is such a small consumer of battery compared to the screen that it would take a non-trival sample of iPad2s to say anything statistically significant. Remember, no two batteries are alike. Then double that for the old iPad2s.
- protomyth 15y agoIt make sense to test the new die shrink on a CPU that has been around awhile and on one where disabling broken parts is an ok thing to do. I wonder if any of the shrunk A5's that have both cores working are ending up in shipping products yet (iPhone 4, iPad 2)?
- jyap 15y agoFrom the article: And, lo! and behold, when we looked at a new iPad 2 (v4), inside it was the APL2498; presumably with both A9 cores enabled this time.
- jgw 15y agoThis is reminiscent of the Intel 486 processor and 487 co-processor. Intel sold 486SX and 486DX parts - the latter had a built-in floating point unit, whereas the former did not. Or at least that's how they were sold. If you had the SX, you could get a 487 "math co-processor" as an add-on to get your floating point unit. As it turns out, the 486SX, 486DX, and 487 were actually the same chip, with different functionality enabled (although I think the 486SXs were actually ones with defective FP units). Anyway, if you upgraded your 486SX with the 487, really what happened was that your 486SX got disabled completely, and the 487 became your one and only processor, with a FP unit. [EDIT: typo]
- sonar_un 15y agoI had one of these (The SX), it was AWFUL! I couldn't even play games that required the math co-processor. I ended up upgrading the processor to one of those Evergreen ones. Worked like a dream. I wish I can remember which game wouldn't run. I believe it was the original Demolition Derby?
- krzyk 15y agoReally? I also had 486SX and the only time I needed the co-processor was when I wanted to run some 3D software (mostly 3D Studio). And for it to work the only thing I needed was coprocessor emulator. In case of games it wouldn't probably be a viable solution as it was obviously slower than the real thing.
- robin_reala 15y agoQuake just about ran on a 486DX, but failed completely on a 486SX.
- TazeTSchnitzel 15y agoWell that's to be expected, 3D graphics usually uses floating-point vector math.
- andrewf 15y ago
- Joakal 15y agoWould it be piracy if someone was able to provide tools to enable disabled parts? "You're making us lose business by providing a tool to allow customers to use more than what they expected and paid for."
- tptacek 15y agoNo, but it might be a violation of the DMCA. It's not necessarily a "social good" to provide tools like this. It obviously annoys nerds to no end that companies use software to detune hardware for price segmentation; the nerd worldview is, "what hardware you sell me is mine to do with as I please". That's utterly sensible. But in the long term, it means that either consumers will have to pay more, or that companies will have to waste time specializing hardware to perform the same segmentation goals. In other words: it's a win for a tiny minority of hardcore nerds, but a loss for everyone else. Also: consider carefully that similar techniques are used throughout many different industries. For instance: recreational boat engines are detuned in software to provide multiple performance categories at different prices.
- rebuttal_bot 15y agoOr, and here's a revolutionary thought: they can produce the single BEST product, and provide it to everyone at the same price!
- daeken 15y agoAfter I hacked the Emotiv EPOC headset to get the raw EEG data out of it, lots of people referred to me as a pirate. However, I firmly believe that customers have the right to do with their property what they will, and I ended up writing this in response to all of it: http://daeken.com/the-hardware-hacker-manifesto http://daeken.com/the-hardware-hacker-manifesto
- stephen_g 15y agoAs other comments have said, some (possibly most) of these chips likely have a core disabled because of manufacturing issues, so it's probably not a good idea... Apart from power usage (which the AppleTV doesn't have to worry about, being plugged into AC) there really isn't much reason to do it otherwise.
- forgottenpaswrd 15y agoI bet this second core is for speech recognition like the MS CPU just for Kinect.
- rsynnott 15y agoIt would be interesting to see if the new iPad 2s with the 32nm part have better battery life than older 45nm ones.