4 ms·

Germany has high fees when buying a house, but compared to the US it is dirt cheap to actually own the house. „Ground tax“, similar ro „property taxes“ in the U

by geff82 3y ago

Germany has high fees when buying a house, but compared to the US it is dirt cheap to actually own the house. „Ground tax“, similar ro „property taxes“ in the US is usually just a few hundred Euro a year. Which, compared to the US, is change money. A German house, when the mortgage is paid, feels like real property.

benjaminwootton 3y ago
I would hate the high US property taxes. It’s like you never really own the property if you are being taxed on it continually. It must play havoc with retirement planning?
- Tangurena2 3y ago
  In most states, property taxes are what pays for schools, roads, libraries and things like that. When I was modernizing our state's motor vehicle registration system, I had to account for those fees in every vehicle (cars, boats, mobile homes, etc) registration cost. The state constitution states that things can only taxed based on value. Taxed based on value: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitution/ViewConstitution?rsn=203 https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitutio... Value based on fair market value: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitution/ViewConstitution?rsn=201 https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitutio...
criley2 3y ago
The tax man gets his one way or another. Imagine the shock of an American living without sales tax when they go to Germany and everything has a 20% government markup... In Germany, the net average tax rate on a worker is 37.4%, in America it is 24.8%. That's a dramatic difference in taxation!
- tempsy 3y ago
  Anyone living in California or NYC and making mid six figures and up is easily paying more than German tax rates then. You’re paying almost 50% around high six figure range. I’ve never quite understood why people think the US is a low tax country.
  - criley2 3y ago
    I used "net average tax rate" from the OECD as an apples to apples comparison. Your reply is "what about the 1%ers who live in two of the most expensive cities in the world? What about THEM?" What about the 99.9% of Americans who don't make six figures in one of those two cities? I've never quite understood why people think America is a few million people living in 2 cities. You know there's 320,000,000 more us of right?
    - tempsy 3y ago
      There’s 50M-60M people between California and NYC. At this point making “mid six figures” hardly makes you rich. You don’t have to be the top 1% to see a tax rate higher than the one you stated. Point is arguing that Americans are low taxed when the highest paying jobs are concentrated in high tax states and cost of living is much higher ignores reality for many Americans who pay as much or more than Europeans.
    - criley2 3y ago
      Oh, my bad, you actually included all of California in your quote. I corrected it to SF because most people understand that California is absolutely massive. The median household income in California is $80k and of the 40 million in California, very few work in tech. California actually has extremely progressive tax laws and extremely low property taxes, so while you're right that the actually wealthy folks do pay a European-level of taxation, the working class actually pays a dramatically tax rate than their counterparts in Europe. Anyone with any knowledge of California knows all of this, so when you made such odd points that seemed to challenge it, I tried to help you by assuming you meant SF. Point is: the vast majority of Americans pay vastly less taxes than Europeans and no weird focuses on outliers is going to change reality. Funny side note: I still am the only person who posted OECD apples to apples data, which you have rejected un-critically with no sourcing and nothing but hand waves about your feelings. Hmmm.
  - PopAlongKid 3y ago
    >You’re paying almost 50% around high six figure range. That's a gross oversimplification and thus very misleading. While your marginal tax rate on taxable income (not gross income) might be close to 50%, if you are married filing joint, a homeowner, and have children, you are not paying anywhere near 50% effective tax rate[0] on your total income, due to deductions and exemptions, credits, tax-deferred retirement contributions, tax-free health insurance, and progressive tax brackets. [0] "effective tax rate" does not have a universally agreed single definition, but the statement holds for most reasonable definitions.
- kbf 3y ago
  I was surprised when I went to the US and had to pay taxes on everything I bought. On a logical level, I know I pay sales tax in Europe too, but it’s all integrated into the price tag of items so on a more psychological level it doesn’t really feel like the tax is there. Compare that to the US where you pick up a few items in a store, mentally add up an approximate price you have to pay and the cashier asks for significantly more. I’ve also noticed some products sold internationally will have very similar prices in the US and EU, probably because the company wants to hit some certain price for marketing reasons, but the EU price has the taxes included in it.
- runako 3y ago
  > That's a dramatic difference in taxation! To be fair, we (US) outsource much of our taxation to the private sector, so that basics like healthcare fees/taxes are routed through private companies. If it comes out of your check before you get it, and it's not going into your 401(k), it might as well be a tax.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

by geff82 3y ago

benjaminwootton 3y ago

I would hate the high US property taxes. It’s like you never really own the property if you are being taxed on it continually. It must play havoc with retirement planning?

Tangurena2 3y ago
In most states, property taxes are what pays for schools, roads, libraries and things like that. When I was modernizing our state's motor vehicle registration system, I had to account for those fees in every vehicle (cars, boats, mobile homes, etc) registration cost. The state constitution states that things can only taxed based on value. Taxed based on value: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitution/ViewConstitution?rsn=203 https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitutio... Value based on fair market value: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitution/ViewConstitution?rsn=201 https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitutio...

criley2 3y ago

The tax man gets his one way or another. Imagine the shock of an American living without sales tax when they go to Germany and everything has a 20% government markup... In Germany, the net average tax rate on a worker is 37.4%, in America it is 24.8%. That's a dramatic difference in taxation!

tempsy 3y ago
Anyone living in California or NYC and making mid six figures and up is easily paying more than German tax rates then. You’re paying almost 50% around high six figure range. I’ve never quite understood why people think the US is a low tax country.
- criley2 3y ago
  I used "net average tax rate" from the OECD as an apples to apples comparison. Your reply is "what about the 1%ers who live in two of the most expensive cities in the world? What about THEM?" What about the 99.9% of Americans who don't make six figures in one of those two cities? I've never quite understood why people think America is a few million people living in 2 cities. You know there's 320,000,000 more us of right?
  - tempsy 3y ago
    There’s 50M-60M people between California and NYC. At this point making “mid six figures” hardly makes you rich. You don’t have to be the top 1% to see a tax rate higher than the one you stated. Point is arguing that Americans are low taxed when the highest paying jobs are concentrated in high tax states and cost of living is much higher ignores reality for many Americans who pay as much or more than Europeans.
  - criley2 3y ago
    Oh, my bad, you actually included all of California in your quote. I corrected it to SF because most people understand that California is absolutely massive. The median household income in California is $80k and of the 40 million in California, very few work in tech. California actually has extremely progressive tax laws and extremely low property taxes, so while you're right that the actually wealthy folks do pay a European-level of taxation, the working class actually pays a dramatically tax rate than their counterparts in Europe. Anyone with any knowledge of California knows all of this, so when you made such odd points that seemed to challenge it, I tried to help you by assuming you meant SF. Point is: the vast majority of Americans pay vastly less taxes than Europeans and no weird focuses on outliers is going to change reality. Funny side note: I still am the only person who posted OECD apples to apples data, which you have rejected un-critically with no sourcing and nothing but hand waves about your feelings. Hmmm.
- PopAlongKid 3y ago
  >You’re paying almost 50% around high six figure range. That's a gross oversimplification and thus very misleading. While your marginal tax rate on taxable income (not gross income) might be close to 50%, if you are married filing joint, a homeowner, and have children, you are not paying anywhere near 50% effective tax rate[0] on your total income, due to deductions and exemptions, credits, tax-deferred retirement contributions, tax-free health insurance, and progressive tax brackets. [0] "effective tax rate" does not have a universally agreed single definition, but the statement holds for most reasonable definitions.
kbf 3y ago
I was surprised when I went to the US and had to pay taxes on everything I bought. On a logical level, I know I pay sales tax in Europe too, but it’s all integrated into the price tag of items so on a more psychological level it doesn’t really feel like the tax is there. Compare that to the US where you pick up a few items in a store, mentally add up an approximate price you have to pay and the cashier asks for significantly more. I’ve also noticed some products sold internationally will have very similar prices in the US and EU, probably because the company wants to hit some certain price for marketing reasons, but the EU price has the taxes included in it.
runako 3y ago
> That's a dramatic difference in taxation! To be fair, we (US) outsource much of our taxation to the private sector, so that basics like healthcare fees/taxes are routed through private companies. If it comes out of your check before you get it, and it's not going into your 401(k), it might as well be a tax.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]