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As usual with this kind of reporting, it’s not really running 100% on renewables. “In the three months to end-September 2023, the South American nation generate

As usual with this kind of reporting, it’s not really running 100% on renewables. “In the three months to end-September 2023, the South American nation generated all of its electricity from renewable sources”. ⇒ Good result, but not there yet.

CalRobert 3y ago
Is that not implied?
- phh 3y ago
  It is indeed implied, BUT making it not explicit is IMO a big problem. Many people are reading these articles' title as "we're almost there with carbon neutral". Even the quotation is playing on this ambiguity "“You become independent of all these kinds of wars or other geopolitical events,” Méndez Galain said." I personally felt for it for quite some time: as a French we say our electricity is nuclear, so we're much much better than our eco-friendly neighbour Germany wrt carbon. But that's completely missing the point. (I'm not saying we're actually worse than them, but we all have still much to improve) I fall in the area of people who think journalists' job is not just to report fact, but to properly phrase them to understand the implications, you might disagree with that.
cies 3y ago
> Renewables alone have powered the Uruguayan economy for nearly four straight months. Not even the title is misleading, the first sentence of the article as well. "the Uruguayan economy" includes mobility (cars, planes), industry, heating of homes. If this is the way we want to promote renewables, by straight up lying, we are merely deceiving ourselves.
- lynx23 3y ago
  Fact is, everyone is subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) lying. The right is lying to the left, and the left is lying to the right. If I learnt anything from COVID-19, nobody can be trusted, no matter where they stand.
  - cies 3y ago
    This is not subtly. This is blatant, repeated, in the face misrepresenting.
  - boxed 3y ago
    Seems like you chose a weird thing to learn.
- mrangle 3y ago
  It's self-deceptive to think that significant renewable use can be anything except lies. The only question is what end of the conversational spectrum are the lies offloaded? Potential for energy supply parity with non-renewables? Population life support (the third rail)?. True carbon math vs the feel-good type? Or like you note, actual renewable energy implementation in contrast with what is purported? Expect a shuffle, with a multi-agenda authoritarian streak under all. When "save group x" loses its political appeal generally, toward justifying politics, then "save the Earth" is an emotionally attractive and infinitely "renewable" excuse for acting anti-democratically.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
So untill humans and livestock can eat batteries the energy trabsition is not complete?
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  If you eat renewable things, like fruit and veg, I hear it can be quite healthy.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    Avoid things grown from synthetic fertilizer though.
    - defrost 3y ago
      More sensibly, avoid sythetic fertilizers made using hydrogen from natural gas, ammonia from hydrogen from natural gas, and energy from new renewable resources. Look to the expansion of actually green hydrogen to power and drive the fertilizer trade and look to reducing transport costs for Phosporus, Potossium, and the final end product while electrifying the mining industry.
  - sshine 3y ago
    Are cows renewable?
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      I guess they could be. They existed before we started extracting fossil fuels.
- coldtea 3y ago
  No, it would be enough if factories, cars, heating, public infrastructure, etc, was too. And, and it's a big "and", if those renewables themselves weren't just feasible because of subsidies (like how, in non-renewables, nuclear is also uncompetitive when considering the whole course of life of a factory and not just the bare production) or built/maintained/etc through ample use of fossil fuels.
coldtea 3y ago
What else you expected them to run on renewable sources? Run their gas-powered cars and factories from renewable gas?
- boxed 3y ago
  I assume the comment meant cars.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    I took it to assume electricity based on the "renewable" part of the title. That said, the "Energy independent Uruguay" oversells it, because if one doesn't understand that renewables can't obviously power non-electric cars and other non-compatible infrastructure, they might think it means Uruguay is totally energy independent and powered on renewables alone.
- JCharante 3y ago
  In the US, people often argue against electric cars saying that the cars will still get their electricity from coal plants. I've always held the view that even if they get their electricity from coal plants, there are reduced particulates in the air & in case the grid ever migrates to a better power supply, then cars are compatible and take advantage. Seems like Uruguay would be in a good position to have electric vehicles go mainstream since there wouldn't be that arguement against them available.
- spaniard89277 3y ago
  Well, biogas exists. I mean, someone could try to turn waste into biogas at scale. AFAIK Germany is the country that produces more biogas and they are far from having it cheap or at scale. In fact sometimes they just turn crops into energy...
- Someone 3y ago
  Indeed. The end game isn’t “produce all your electricity from renewable sources”; it’s “produce all energy you use from renewable sources”. As a further step up, there’s “produce enough excess electricity to potentially produce the gas we use”, then the end goal where that excess production actually is used to produce that gas (that likely will be with much lower gas usage), either in the country or abroad. I doubt they’ll ever be truly independent for their energy needs. The country is too small for that, as it would require producing solar cells, wind turbines, etc. inside the country.

CalRobert 3y ago

Is that not implied?

phh 3y ago
It is indeed implied, BUT making it not explicit is IMO a big problem. Many people are reading these articles' title as "we're almost there with carbon neutral". Even the quotation is playing on this ambiguity "“You become independent of all these kinds of wars or other geopolitical events,” Méndez Galain said." I personally felt for it for quite some time: as a French we say our electricity is nuclear, so we're much much better than our eco-friendly neighbour Germany wrt carbon. But that's completely missing the point. (I'm not saying we're actually worse than them, but we all have still much to improve) I fall in the area of people who think journalists' job is not just to report fact, but to properly phrase them to understand the implications, you might disagree with that.

cies 3y ago

> Renewables alone have powered the Uruguayan economy for nearly four straight months. Not even the title is misleading, the first sentence of the article as well. "the Uruguayan economy" includes mobility (cars, planes), industry, heating of homes. If this is the way we want to promote renewables, by straight up lying, we are merely deceiving ourselves.

lynx23 3y ago
Fact is, everyone is subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) lying. The right is lying to the left, and the left is lying to the right. If I learnt anything from COVID-19, nobody can be trusted, no matter where they stand.
- cies 3y ago
  This is not subtly. This is blatant, repeated, in the face misrepresenting.
- boxed 3y ago
  Seems like you chose a weird thing to learn.
mrangle 3y ago
It's self-deceptive to think that significant renewable use can be anything except lies. The only question is what end of the conversational spectrum are the lies offloaded? Potential for energy supply parity with non-renewables? Population life support (the third rail)?. True carbon math vs the feel-good type? Or like you note, actual renewable energy implementation in contrast with what is purported? Expect a shuffle, with a multi-agenda authoritarian streak under all. When "save group x" loses its political appeal generally, toward justifying politics, then "save the Earth" is an emotionally attractive and infinitely "renewable" excuse for acting anti-democratically.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

So untill humans and livestock can eat batteries the energy trabsition is not complete?

quickthrower2 3y ago
If you eat renewable things, like fruit and veg, I hear it can be quite healthy.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Avoid things grown from synthetic fertilizer though.
  - defrost 3y ago
    More sensibly, avoid sythetic fertilizers made using hydrogen from natural gas, ammonia from hydrogen from natural gas, and energy from new renewable resources. Look to the expansion of actually green hydrogen to power and drive the fertilizer trade and look to reducing transport costs for Phosporus, Potossium, and the final end product while electrifying the mining industry.
- sshine 3y ago
  Are cows renewable?
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    I guess they could be. They existed before we started extracting fossil fuels.
coldtea 3y ago
No, it would be enough if factories, cars, heating, public infrastructure, etc, was too. And, and it's a big "and", if those renewables themselves weren't just feasible because of subsidies (like how, in non-renewables, nuclear is also uncompetitive when considering the whole course of life of a factory and not just the bare production) or built/maintained/etc through ample use of fossil fuels.

coldtea 3y ago

What else you expected them to run on renewable sources? Run their gas-powered cars and factories from renewable gas?

boxed 3y ago
I assume the comment meant cars.
- coldtea 3y ago
  I took it to assume electricity based on the "renewable" part of the title. That said, the "Energy independent Uruguay" oversells it, because if one doesn't understand that renewables can't obviously power non-electric cars and other non-compatible infrastructure, they might think it means Uruguay is totally energy independent and powered on renewables alone.
JCharante 3y ago
In the US, people often argue against electric cars saying that the cars will still get their electricity from coal plants. I've always held the view that even if they get their electricity from coal plants, there are reduced particulates in the air & in case the grid ever migrates to a better power supply, then cars are compatible and take advantage. Seems like Uruguay would be in a good position to have electric vehicles go mainstream since there wouldn't be that arguement against them available.
spaniard89277 3y ago
Well, biogas exists. I mean, someone could try to turn waste into biogas at scale. AFAIK Germany is the country that produces more biogas and they are far from having it cheap or at scale. In fact sometimes they just turn crops into energy...
Someone 3y ago
Indeed. The end game isn’t “produce all your electricity from renewable sources”; it’s “produce all energy you use from renewable sources”. As a further step up, there’s “produce enough excess electricity to potentially produce the gas we use”, then the end goal where that excess production actually is used to produce that gas (that likely will be with much lower gas usage), either in the country or abroad. I doubt they’ll ever be truly independent for their energy needs. The country is too small for that, as it would require producing solar cells, wind turbines, etc. inside the country.