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This is not because renewables cannot tackle the challenge, but because this is a work in progress (not quick enough) => not enough electricity produced => it o

This is not because renewables cannot tackle the challenge, but because this is a work in progress (not quick enough) => not enough electricity produced => it offers a path for coal which is important for social and financial reasons. Add the Ukraine crisis (less imported methane). From 2010 to 2020 (crisis) Germany burnt less and less fossil fuels for its electricity, and methane (gas) isn't booming (from 90 to 96), while renewables do: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source?time=2010..latest&country=~DEU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by... it induced a decrease in its carbon intensity: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity?tab=chart&time=2010..latest&country=~DEU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electric... Comparing it to France implies to take every pertinent parameter into account, for example GDP/capita, climate (heating needs) and the fact that France imports more, and exports less (it lost approximately 50% of its industry since 1980) and therefore "avoids" emitting by using products built in other nations: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-co2-embedded-in-trade?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&region=Europe&country=FRA~DEU https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-co2-embedded-in-tra...

troupo 3y ago
> This is not because renewables cannot tackle the challenge, but because this is a work in progress (not quick enough) => not enough electricity produced What is the end of this work in progress? 1000% overprovisioning of renewables?
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Generally models of fully renewable grids aim for about a 4x overprovisioning (based on peak demand), though of course since that's based on achieving the lowest cost way to provide energy, you could debate whether the phrase "overprovisioning" really applies. Some have taken to calling it "superpower" (terrible name) because by overbuilding to meet the peak demand, you end up with masses of cheap energy at all non-peak times. https://www.rethinkx.com/energy https://www.rethinkx.com/energy
  - troupo 3y ago
    > Generally models of fully renewable grids aim for about a 4x overprovisioning (based on peak demand) So assuming Germany needs 60GW of power you need 240GW of renewables. Thing is, at 15% generation those renewables barely produce the required electricity. Countries don't like barely when it comes to electricity production.
    - natmaka 3y ago
      The challenge isn't about producing electricity, but providing it when needed. In most nations "providing it when needed" was equivalent to "producing it when needed" because, then, the sole way to realistically store enough electricity (hydro dams) weren't a solution due to inadequate local features (geography). It isn't true anymore, as we now can store huge amounts of electricity in batteries (mainly in vehicles), as hydrogen... "Producing it when needed" was equivalent to "generating electricity in a fully controllable manner, using a managed stock of fuel in order to adjust production (especially: bumping it up whenever consumption rises)" because there was no real way to balance things on a large scale by massively benefiting from a remote electricity-generating equipment because transporting electricity over long distances was expensive and impractical (too much line losses). This isn't true anymore, thanks to (U)HVDC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects ), enabling continental-sized grids reducing the effects of wind and solar intermittency ( https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-could-provide-more-stable/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-... )

troupo 3y ago

> This is not because renewables cannot tackle the challenge, but because this is a work in progress (not quick enough) => not enough electricity produced What is the end of this work in progress? 1000% overprovisioning of renewables?

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Generally models of fully renewable grids aim for about a 4x overprovisioning (based on peak demand), though of course since that's based on achieving the lowest cost way to provide energy, you could debate whether the phrase "overprovisioning" really applies. Some have taken to calling it "superpower" (terrible name) because by overbuilding to meet the peak demand, you end up with masses of cheap energy at all non-peak times. https://www.rethinkx.com/energy https://www.rethinkx.com/energy
- troupo 3y ago
  > Generally models of fully renewable grids aim for about a 4x overprovisioning (based on peak demand) So assuming Germany needs 60GW of power you need 240GW of renewables. Thing is, at 15% generation those renewables barely produce the required electricity. Countries don't like barely when it comes to electricity production.
  - natmaka 3y ago
    The challenge isn't about producing electricity, but providing it when needed. In most nations "providing it when needed" was equivalent to "producing it when needed" because, then, the sole way to realistically store enough electricity (hydro dams) weren't a solution due to inadequate local features (geography). It isn't true anymore, as we now can store huge amounts of electricity in batteries (mainly in vehicles), as hydrogen... "Producing it when needed" was equivalent to "generating electricity in a fully controllable manner, using a managed stock of fuel in order to adjust production (especially: bumping it up whenever consumption rises)" because there was no real way to balance things on a large scale by massively benefiting from a remote electricity-generating equipment because transporting electricity over long distances was expensive and impractical (too much line losses). This isn't true anymore, thanks to (U)HVDC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects ), enabling continental-sized grids reducing the effects of wind and solar intermittency ( https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-could-provide-more-stable/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-... )