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Timeline, again... The additional gas pipes, used for heating and industrial use primarily and not electricity (no idea why people fail to understand the differ

by hef19898 3y ago

Timeline, again... The additional gas pipes, used for heating and industrial use primarily and not electricity (no idea why people fail to understand the difference) have been built before (!) the war in Ukraine. And never been used. To the point Germany increased coal consumption. So, when those pipelines, Nordstream 2 I assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! I know, social media resulted in attention spans zrending to zero, but time for us humans still moves im one direction, and things happened whek they did, and not when peiole learn about them...

realusername 3y ago
People don't make the difference because it's exactly the same thing. Neighbouring France has 40% electric heating whereas it's something like 5% in Germany. > assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! And what about the talks with Azerbaijan and the increase imports from Algeria then? (both great countries aligned with the EU I'm sure). More pipelines are planning to be built following the war.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Yes, because any transition takes time. And since people still want heating during said transition we still need gas. And since gas is the cleanest fossil fuel we have, yes, let's built pipelines. Which can be reporposed for green hydrogen in a potential future. Unless of course, you want to go pre-industrial that is.
  - realusername 3y ago
    Or maybe just maybe we can say that it doesn't work and it failed? Building more gas pipes after the Russian war is pure insanity, even if you don't care about the environment
    - hef19898 3y ago
      How exactly is importing gas from Algeria (which delivered to the yet to connected to the German gas grid in Spain for decades) related with anything Russia does?
      - realusername 3y ago
        Algeria is just a second Russia with sunny weather. Dictatorship, most of the money is going to the military complex (and buying russian gear even), in conflict with their neighbors, most of the money comes from fossil fuel, politically opposed to the EU... There's not many places you can get gas even if you don't care about the environment. And yes, getting gas from Algeria was a problem before the war as well. Realistically,the only good choice in the EU is Norway.
        hef19898 3y ago
        I missed the part where Algeria has a nuclear arsenal and wants to invade some place (don't mention West-Sahara please, that thing is worthy of it's own series of books). So, no fossil fuels from oppressive regimes then (I'm all for it, really, the sooner the Saudi can no longer pay the way into everything the better). Which leaves us with what exactly? Renewables, meaning sourcing from China. And nuclear, just remind me, where does the reactor fuel come from again?
        realusername 3y ago
        You are getting the issue now. Energy reliance on political enemies is a big problem. I'd also be happy the day the Saudis are gone. So yeah solar panels imports are also a big issue, I'm worried that China will close off the exports at some point. As for nuclear, it's not as big of an issue as you think, most of the value is in the plant, there's lots of countries exporting the raw material which are not much related and storage is pretty easy. (Conditions may apply of course, some nuclear grids are much more dependent than others but it's possible to be relatively independent with it) Fossil fuels are a diplomatic, environmental and economic issue, even if you don't care about the environment, three's lots of other downsides.

realusername 3y ago

People don't make the difference because it's exactly the same thing. Neighbouring France has 40% electric heating whereas it's something like 5% in Germany. > assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! And what about the talks with Azerbaijan and the increase imports from Algeria then? (both great countries aligned with the EU I'm sure). More pipelines are planning to be built following the war.

hef19898 3y ago
Yes, because any transition takes time. And since people still want heating during said transition we still need gas. And since gas is the cleanest fossil fuel we have, yes, let's built pipelines. Which can be reporposed for green hydrogen in a potential future. Unless of course, you want to go pre-industrial that is.
- realusername 3y ago
  Or maybe just maybe we can say that it doesn't work and it failed? Building more gas pipes after the Russian war is pure insanity, even if you don't care about the environment
  - hef19898 3y ago
    How exactly is importing gas from Algeria (which delivered to the yet to connected to the German gas grid in Spain for decades) related with anything Russia does?
    - realusername 3y ago
      Algeria is just a second Russia with sunny weather. Dictatorship, most of the money is going to the military complex (and buying russian gear even), in conflict with their neighbors, most of the money comes from fossil fuel, politically opposed to the EU... There's not many places you can get gas even if you don't care about the environment. And yes, getting gas from Algeria was a problem before the war as well. Realistically,the only good choice in the EU is Norway.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        I missed the part where Algeria has a nuclear arsenal and wants to invade some place (don't mention West-Sahara please, that thing is worthy of it's own series of books). So, no fossil fuels from oppressive regimes then (I'm all for it, really, the sooner the Saudi can no longer pay the way into everything the better). Which leaves us with what exactly? Renewables, meaning sourcing from China. And nuclear, just remind me, where does the reactor fuel come from again?
        realusername 3y ago
        You are getting the issue now. Energy reliance on political enemies is a big problem. I'd also be happy the day the Saudis are gone. So yeah solar panels imports are also a big issue, I'm worried that China will close off the exports at some point. As for nuclear, it's not as big of an issue as you think, most of the value is in the plant, there's lots of countries exporting the raw material which are not much related and storage is pretty easy. (Conditions may apply of course, some nuclear grids are much more dependent than others but it's possible to be relatively independent with it) Fossil fuels are a diplomatic, environmental and economic issue, even if you don't care about the environment, three's lots of other downsides.