4 ms·

I love that, you know? You have some good news regarding electricity and renewables, and instead of being happy, people start to look for problems. But let's r

by hef19898 3y ago

I love that, you know? You have some good news regarding electricity and renewables, and instead of being happy, people start to look for problems. But let's role with it for second. Renewables are, unfortunately, not at a point yet where they can cover 100% of demand. We cannot change the current mix neither. So, what would be your proposed way forward to "solve" climate change? I am really curious, because most of the time people just ignore the time schedule behind those transitions (power plants have to be built, grids to be extended...).

realusername 3y ago
I'm the kind of "I'll believe it when I see it" type of person. The transition is clearly not going well and they even wanted to build more gas pipes, the russian war lessons have not been learned. Renewables in the EU overpromissed and underdelivered for a long time.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Timeline, again... The additional gas pipes, used for heating and industrial use primarily and not electricity (no idea why people fail to understand the difference) have been built before (!) the war in Ukraine. And never been used. To the point Germany increased coal consumption. So, when those pipelines, Nordstream 2 I assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! I know, social media resulted in attention spans zrending to zero, but time for us humans still moves im one direction, and things happened whek they did, and not when peiole learn about them...
  - realusername 3y ago
    People don't make the difference because it's exactly the same thing. Neighbouring France has 40% electric heating whereas it's something like 5% in Germany. > assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! And what about the talks with Azerbaijan and the increase imports from Algeria then? (both great countries aligned with the EU I'm sure). More pipelines are planning to be built following the war.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Yes, because any transition takes time. And since people still want heating during said transition we still need gas. And since gas is the cleanest fossil fuel we have, yes, let's built pipelines. Which can be reporposed for green hydrogen in a potential future. Unless of course, you want to go pre-industrial that is.
      - realusername 3y ago
        Or maybe just maybe we can say that it doesn't work and it failed? Building more gas pipes after the Russian war is pure insanity, even if you don't care about the environment
        hef19898 3y ago
        How exactly is importing gas from Algeria (which delivered to the yet to connected to the German gas grid in Spain for decades) related with anything Russia does?
        realusername 3y ago
        Algeria is just a second Russia with sunny weather. Dictatorship, most of the money is going to the military complex (and buying russian gear even), in conflict with their neighbors, most of the money comes from fossil fuel, politically opposed to the EU... There's not many places you can get gas even if you don't care about the environment. And yes, getting gas from Algeria was a problem before the war as well. Realistically,the only good choice in the EU is Norway.
        hef19898 3y ago
        I missed the part where Algeria has a nuclear arsenal and wants to invade some place (don't mention West-Sahara please, that thing is worthy of it's own series of books). So, no fossil fuels from oppressive regimes then (I'm all for it, really, the sooner the Saudi can no longer pay the way into everything the better). Which leaves us with what exactly? Renewables, meaning sourcing from China. And nuclear, just remind me, where does the reactor fuel come from again?
- natmaka 3y ago
  Share of nuclear and renewables: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electricity?country=~OWID_EU27 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electr... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electricity?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electr...
  - realusername 3y ago
    Too bad that doesn't materialize in reality as seen in the EU
    - natmaka 3y ago
      Those are the share of nuclear and renewables in total electricity production, therefore this is quite real. In which way 'electricity production' isn't real, or not helping to reduce greenhouse-gas effect emissions?
      - realusername 3y ago
        In the real world, the grid got almost shut down by the Russian war and the salvation came from even dirtier gas from the US
        hef19898 3y ago
        What are you even talking about? The electricity grid? The gas grid? If so, whoms? Germany's? The French? The only grid that got shot up was the Ukrainian one. And even then gas still flowed through to Eastern Europe...
        realusername 3y ago
        The electricity grid would have been dead without dirty gas import from the US
        3y ago

realusername 3y ago

I'm the kind of "I'll believe it when I see it" type of person. The transition is clearly not going well and they even wanted to build more gas pipes, the russian war lessons have not been learned. Renewables in the EU overpromissed and underdelivered for a long time.

hef19898 3y ago
Timeline, again... The additional gas pipes, used for heating and industrial use primarily and not electricity (no idea why people fail to understand the difference) have been built before (!) the war in Ukraine. And never been used. To the point Germany increased coal consumption. So, when those pipelines, Nordstream 2 I assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! I know, social media resulted in attention spans zrending to zero, but time for us humans still moves im one direction, and things happened whek they did, and not when peiole learn about them...
- realusername 3y ago
  People don't make the difference because it's exactly the same thing. Neighbouring France has 40% electric heating whereas it's something like 5% in Germany. > assume you mean, was built, there was no war in Ukriane or elsewhere involving Russia, and hence no lessons to be drwan from it! And what about the talks with Azerbaijan and the increase imports from Algeria then? (both great countries aligned with the EU I'm sure). More pipelines are planning to be built following the war.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Yes, because any transition takes time. And since people still want heating during said transition we still need gas. And since gas is the cleanest fossil fuel we have, yes, let's built pipelines. Which can be reporposed for green hydrogen in a potential future. Unless of course, you want to go pre-industrial that is.
    - realusername 3y ago
      Or maybe just maybe we can say that it doesn't work and it failed? Building more gas pipes after the Russian war is pure insanity, even if you don't care about the environment
      - hef19898 3y ago
        How exactly is importing gas from Algeria (which delivered to the yet to connected to the German gas grid in Spain for decades) related with anything Russia does?
        realusername 3y ago
        Algeria is just a second Russia with sunny weather. Dictatorship, most of the money is going to the military complex (and buying russian gear even), in conflict with their neighbors, most of the money comes from fossil fuel, politically opposed to the EU... There's not many places you can get gas even if you don't care about the environment. And yes, getting gas from Algeria was a problem before the war as well. Realistically,the only good choice in the EU is Norway.
        hef19898 3y ago
        I missed the part where Algeria has a nuclear arsenal and wants to invade some place (don't mention West-Sahara please, that thing is worthy of it's own series of books). So, no fossil fuels from oppressive regimes then (I'm all for it, really, the sooner the Saudi can no longer pay the way into everything the better). Which leaves us with what exactly? Renewables, meaning sourcing from China. And nuclear, just remind me, where does the reactor fuel come from again?
natmaka 3y ago
Share of nuclear and renewables: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electricity?country=~OWID_EU27 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electr... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electricity?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/nuclear-renewables-electr...
- realusername 3y ago
  Too bad that doesn't materialize in reality as seen in the EU
  - natmaka 3y ago
    Those are the share of nuclear and renewables in total electricity production, therefore this is quite real. In which way 'electricity production' isn't real, or not helping to reduce greenhouse-gas effect emissions?
    - realusername 3y ago
      In the real world, the grid got almost shut down by the Russian war and the salvation came from even dirtier gas from the US
      - hef19898 3y ago
        What are you even talking about? The electricity grid? The gas grid? If so, whoms? Germany's? The French? The only grid that got shot up was the Ukrainian one. And even then gas still flowed through to Eastern Europe...
        realusername 3y ago
        The electricity grid would have been dead without dirty gas import from the US
        3y ago