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People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. Windows, especially after Windows 10, has been acti

People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. Windows, especially after Windows 10, has been actively hostile and repeatedly ignores the clear will of its users. At boot time, it regularly takes the computer hostage in an attempt to coerce me to mass-enable its many spywares. After disabling then one by one, I can login to my desktop only to find that it has changed my default browser again. So I have to change that back, which is kind of futile because various parts of the OS now ignores the default browser settings anyway. After that, I have to dismiss the relentless ads and remove the crapware that keeps getting installed at every turn and corner. This is a very, very far cry from "everything is easy to accomplish, my personal use software just works and I don't have to struggle with extra clicks and movements for everything." Both things can't be true at the same time. I have to click, click, click, go through all sorts of hoops, and finally give up and throw my computer out the window in frustration to try to achieve what I want in Windows. And what for? Out of pure corporate greed.

blackoil 3y ago
> People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. I feel same way about Mac users. Can't understand how people accept that turd of OS that comes with poor defaults (Window Management/Finder/keyboard), weaker customization and tonnes of bloat (Music/Notes/Messages/Mail/...) and then they pay a premium for it.
- soraminazuki 3y ago
  That's literally your opinion about features. And a possibly outdated one too, because current model keyboards are fine. Also the fact that you chose window management as a major problem on Macs tells me that you have a strong dislike for things that's unfamiliar to you. There are some annoyances with Macs, especially if you're a dev, but window management isn't one of them. Macs have the best touchpad gestures and virtual desktop management UX. GNOME comes close these days, but Macs still feel a bit smoother. As for your problem with "bloat," most of those are just stock utility apps. Any major desktop OS have had those since ages. You do have a point with Apple Music, but Notes, Messages, and Mail? Are you serious?
glimshe 3y ago
I haven't experienced the "facts" you describe - which makes me think they are opinions, or personal perceptions on pretty standard product practices, rather than facts. Whenever there is a major update, they put a big button for me to enable Bing and a smaller button for me to not do that, and I just need to click on the smaller button. They sometimes enable brand new features I don't want by default, but they do that to make features discoverable; in years of Windows use, all I needed to do is disable the things I didn't want. I'm not a Windows fanboy. It's just an operating system, not a way of life. While it does have some things I don't like, I'm quite productive using it and I'm a satisfied user. If it wasn't trivial to disable/reject these things, Bing would have a 50%+ desktop market share and that's not what we see. People aren't going in mass from Windows to Linux/Mac, what is happening instead is that desktop OSs are becoming less and less useful as people who used to be desktop users do everything they need on mobile platforms.
- soraminazuki 3y ago
  An opinion? Are you suggesting that all the abuse I've been subjected to by my Windows machine was just all in my head? Well, that's weird because instances of those abuse are well documented. The sheer number of those cases, the length Microsoft goes to, the level of contempt they show towards their users is unheard of in any other operating system in existence. I double checked, and I'm pretty sure my "perception" is in agreement with verifiable facts. > Whenever there is a major update, they put a big button for me to enable Bing and a smaller button for me to not do that, and I just need to click on the smaller button. This is not true. They're making it progressively harder to opt out of unwanted features. It's even impossible in some cases. Anyways, I clearly remember Windows booting into an unskippable full screen nag. The option to mass-accept various violations of my privacy was shown as a big blue button. The other option was concealed in a wall of text as a link, barely recognizable. After clicking on the link, I was greeted with a bunch of options that I had to toggle off, one by one. This isn't normal or acceptable. It's evil and manipulative, and the fact that they chose to do this at boot, when people need their computers the most, is beyond infuriating. Here's just a little taste of the Windows experience: # Privacy Violations Windows 11 Update 23H2 is stealing users' IMAP credentials - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38212453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38212453 I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976298 Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053352 # User Interference and Coercion Microsoft has removed the “use offline account” option when installing Windows - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21103683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21103683 Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Windows 10 Insider build - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17967243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17967243 Outlook now ignores Windows' Default Browser and opens links in Edge by default - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36492329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36492329 Microsoft blocks EdgeDeflector to force Windows 11 users into Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251210 Microsoft has not stopped forcing Edge on Windows 11 users - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37461449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37461449 Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29579994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29579994 Last Windows 11 update changed all default browser settings to Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30055222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30055222 Microsoft tests Windows account menu error badge when Microsoft Account not used - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35443361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35443361 Removing “Annoying” Windows 10 Features Is a DMCA Violation, Microsoft Says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 # Ads Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11167964 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11167964 Why can an ad break the Windows 11 desktop and taskbar? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332 Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27337382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27337382 Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22288599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22288599 Windows 10 Tip: Turn Off File Explorer Advertising - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13835733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13835733 # Unwanted Features Windows needs to stop showing tabloid news - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35323121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35323121

blackoil 3y ago

> People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. I feel same way about Mac users. Can't understand how people accept that turd of OS that comes with poor defaults (Window Management/Finder/keyboard), weaker customization and tonnes of bloat (Music/Notes/Messages/Mail/...) and then they pay a premium for it.

soraminazuki 3y ago
That's literally your opinion about features. And a possibly outdated one too, because current model keyboards are fine. Also the fact that you chose window management as a major problem on Macs tells me that you have a strong dislike for things that's unfamiliar to you. There are some annoyances with Macs, especially if you're a dev, but window management isn't one of them. Macs have the best touchpad gestures and virtual desktop management UX. GNOME comes close these days, but Macs still feel a bit smoother. As for your problem with "bloat," most of those are just stock utility apps. Any major desktop OS have had those since ages. You do have a point with Apple Music, but Notes, Messages, and Mail? Are you serious?

glimshe 3y ago

I haven't experienced the "facts" you describe - which makes me think they are opinions, or personal perceptions on pretty standard product practices, rather than facts. Whenever there is a major update, they put a big button for me to enable Bing and a smaller button for me to not do that, and I just need to click on the smaller button. They sometimes enable brand new features I don't want by default, but they do that to make features discoverable; in years of Windows use, all I needed to do is disable the things I didn't want. I'm not a Windows fanboy. It's just an operating system, not a way of life. While it does have some things I don't like, I'm quite productive using it and I'm a satisfied user. If it wasn't trivial to disable/reject these things, Bing would have a 50%+ desktop market share and that's not what we see. People aren't going in mass from Windows to Linux/Mac, what is happening instead is that desktop OSs are becoming less and less useful as people who used to be desktop users do everything they need on mobile platforms.

soraminazuki 3y ago
An opinion? Are you suggesting that all the abuse I've been subjected to by my Windows machine was just all in my head? Well, that's weird because instances of those abuse are well documented. The sheer number of those cases, the length Microsoft goes to, the level of contempt they show towards their users is unheard of in any other operating system in existence. I double checked, and I'm pretty sure my "perception" is in agreement with verifiable facts. > Whenever there is a major update, they put a big button for me to enable Bing and a smaller button for me to not do that, and I just need to click on the smaller button. This is not true. They're making it progressively harder to opt out of unwanted features. It's even impossible in some cases. Anyways, I clearly remember Windows booting into an unskippable full screen nag. The option to mass-accept various violations of my privacy was shown as a big blue button. The other option was concealed in a wall of text as a link, barely recognizable. After clicking on the link, I was greeted with a bunch of options that I had to toggle off, one by one. This isn't normal or acceptable. It's evil and manipulative, and the fact that they chose to do this at boot, when people need their computers the most, is beyond infuriating. Here's just a little taste of the Windows experience: # Privacy Violations Windows 11 Update 23H2 is stealing users' IMAP credentials - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38212453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38212453 I noticed some disturbing privacy defaults in Windows 10 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976298 Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053352 # User Interference and Coercion Microsoft has removed the “use offline account” option when installing Windows - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21103683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21103683 Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Windows 10 Insider build - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17967243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17967243 Outlook now ignores Windows' Default Browser and opens links in Edge by default - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36492329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36492329 Microsoft blocks EdgeDeflector to force Windows 11 users into Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251210 Microsoft has not stopped forcing Edge on Windows 11 users - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37461449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37461449 Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29579994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29579994 Last Windows 11 update changed all default browser settings to Edge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30055222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30055222 Microsoft tests Windows account menu error badge when Microsoft Account not used - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35443361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35443361 Removing “Annoying” Windows 10 Features Is a DMCA Violation, Microsoft Says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 # Ads Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11167964 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11167964 Why can an ad break the Windows 11 desktop and taskbar? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332 Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27337382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27337382 Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22288599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22288599 Windows 10 Tip: Turn Off File Explorer Advertising - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13835733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13835733 # Unwanted Features Windows needs to stop showing tabloid news - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35323121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35323121