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I'm probably a tiny minority but I don't like that CSS is becoming so bloated with features that overlap fully-fledged programming languages. Yes, it's becoming

by tagawa 15y ago

I'm probably a tiny minority but I don't like that CSS is becoming so bloated with features that overlap fully-fledged programming languages. Yes, it's becoming more powerful but I wonder if some of this is due to an inherent "right, what can we add next?" attitude which takes it further away from its presentational role. I also mourn the loss of a simplicity that meant that curious teenagers (like myself way back when) could look at a site's code and easily learn from it.

TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
Well, I'm a curious teenager. Personally, I think source is somewhat easier to understand on modern sites. The use of CSS and divs instead of tables for layouts has had an interesting side effect: most elements of a page have IDs or classes. This makes it far more obvious what they are there for without having to use a web page inspector. That said, the continuing expansion of HTML, CSS and JavaScript APIs worries me too, but for a different reason. I'm worried that the stack will become so big that there is no possibility of new rendering engines or browsers.
- tagawa 15y ago
  Good points. I hadn't thought about the increased barrier to entry for new rendering engines but you're quite right.
lbotos 15y ago
I agree with your "what can we add next" qualm, but I'm not feeling that way about variables in CSS. I don't see variables hindering code readability/learnability. As a front-end guy have you ever exclaimed, "Man, I'm glad CSS doesn't have variables!"? I've done front-end stuff on and off for a few years and I've always thought variables would be the "easiest" thing for implementers to enhance CSS.
mzarate06 15y ago
CSS variables don't impact CSS' simplicity. If you need CSS to be simple, its still gonna have that, but when you get around to needing: css variables, transforms, gradients, border-radius, multiple background images, etc. ... you'll be glad to know that those features are available as well and that you don't have to add complexity to whatever you're building to hack those in. I also don't see how CSS variables, or other recent CSS features, hinder anyone from learning from a site's code. All these things make it easier to create stuff. My only complaint is that they're not added soon enough.
micheljansen 15y ago
The key difference here being that rather than looking at whatever bloat they can add this time, CSS variables are actually derived from an acute need in the community. So much, that there are even two CSS preprocessors/frameworks that already add this (SASS and Less). This lack of variables in CSS is already being solved in a nonstandard way. Might as well standardise a solution.

by tagawa 15y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago

Well, I'm a curious teenager. Personally, I think source is somewhat easier to understand on modern sites. The use of CSS and divs instead of tables for layouts has had an interesting side effect: most elements of a page have IDs or classes. This makes it far more obvious what they are there for without having to use a web page inspector. That said, the continuing expansion of HTML, CSS and JavaScript APIs worries me too, but for a different reason. I'm worried that the stack will become so big that there is no possibility of new rendering engines or browsers.

tagawa 15y ago
Good points. I hadn't thought about the increased barrier to entry for new rendering engines but you're quite right.

lbotos 15y ago

I agree with your "what can we add next" qualm, but I'm not feeling that way about variables in CSS. I don't see variables hindering code readability/learnability. As a front-end guy have you ever exclaimed, "Man, I'm glad CSS doesn't have variables!"? I've done front-end stuff on and off for a few years and I've always thought variables would be the "easiest" thing for implementers to enhance CSS.

mzarate06 15y ago

CSS variables don't impact CSS' simplicity. If you need CSS to be simple, its still gonna have that, but when you get around to needing: css variables, transforms, gradients, border-radius, multiple background images, etc. ... you'll be glad to know that those features are available as well and that you don't have to add complexity to whatever you're building to hack those in. I also don't see how CSS variables, or other recent CSS features, hinder anyone from learning from a site's code. All these things make it easier to create stuff. My only complaint is that they're not added soon enough.

micheljansen 15y ago

The key difference here being that rather than looking at whatever bloat they can add this time, CSS variables are actually derived from an acute need in the community. So much, that there are even two CSS preprocessors/frameworks that already add this (SASS and Less). This lack of variables in CSS is already being solved in a nonstandard way. Might as well standardise a solution.