12 ms·

I'll ask the question you're implying out loud. Why does an organization with about 50 employees need 4 C-level executives, totalling about 2M compensation per

I'll ask the question you're implying out loud. Why does an organization with about 50 employees need 4 C-level executives, totalling about 2M compensation per year? Or perhaps it's 7 C-level executives (3 hiding under the "Software developer" title) totalling about 3,7M compensation per year? I'm absolutely not donating money to such a thing without an answer to this question. As a counterpoint, I am a member of a local (Finnish) non-profit organization, one of whose many services is Matrix. This costs me 40 euros per year and none of that money goes to C-level executives.

temptemptemp111 3y ago
[dead]
jefozabuss 3y ago
2M in comp distributed between 4 people is not a lot at this scale in my opinion.
- philjohn 3y ago
  For a nonprofit?
  - EduardoBautista 3y ago
    A nonprofit doesn't mean it's a charity.
    - Lutger 3y ago
      A nonprofit asking for donations because of <good cause>? What is the definition of a charity then?
    - unsungNovelty 3y ago
      > 501(c)(3) tax-exemptions apply to entities that are organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary or educational purposes, for testing for public safety, to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals. Signal foundation is a non-profit 501(c)(3). It is literally and legally a charity.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        Charities aren't charities in the colloquial sense of the word. It's not a truly altruistic collaboration of volunteers giving their time to help a cause. Non-profit simply means that every bit of revenue made goes back into the company instead of given out to shareholders. Which includes paying your labor. It being a non-profit is exactly why we can view the operating expenses and salaries of the public facing executives. For accountability.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  It is for a non-profit asking for donations. If they want half a mill salaries, they should become for-profit instead.
  - anjel 3y ago
    The beauty of non profits is everyone thinks they're staffed with saints, when the truth is far less beatific.
    - moravak1984 3y ago
      Absolutely. A former student of mine worked for a non profit in Afghanistan (his home country) for a few years. Said non profit was flying in McKinsey consultants for very short gigs at six figures (USD). Same can be said about many LGBT non profits that have shifted their goals in the developed world on the "T" part of the acronym. On countries where marriage equality is a given, no one is going to fund an NGO focused on gay marriage... so they need a new cause to fight for.
      - _ugfj 3y ago
        to me this smells transphobic but it's possible the trans genocide several US states are working on made me oversensitive
        rengle 3y ago
        [flagged]
        chx 3y ago
        > safeguarding of children against mutilation and sterilisation, I am so, so tired. None of that happens. GnRH analogues are commonly used in gender affirming care, these are reversible. Surgery is not done on minors. > the protection of women's single-sex spaces, Predatory men have absolutely no problems finding opportunities to predate on women. This made up crap need not happen. You are parroting sound bites on issues you have no understanding of. For the sake of humanity, literally, please stop and start reading. You are on a very dark path.
- pas 3y ago
  we ought to be well past this, if they want to be donation based they need efficiency. it's possible to run this from, let's say, Andalusia, and hire competent folks for a fraction of this.
fransje26 3y ago
> We estimate that by 2025, Signal will require approximately $50 million dollars a year to operate And from the link: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824506840 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824... - Other Salaries and Wages $9,665,761 - Executive Compensation $744,037 So about $10,400,000 a year in compensation and wages, or about 21% of their running costs.
- darthrupert 3y ago
  So if I give 5 euros, 1 of this will go to salaries. I'd say not terrible. I wouldn't be surprised if most charities are worse. One just have to get over the feeling that I'm donating to a charity of people who make 50x more money than I do with a comparable skill set.
_ugfj 3y ago
I find this hypocritical. C executives of tech orgs with world class products often have eight figures compensation -- if not from salary then from stock options. I do not see any excess here. You need to pay to compete.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  And you get a world-class service that a lot of people can use for free and keeps their communication private in return. I'll happily keep donating for that. I'm sure there are some costs that they could theoretically cut without consequence. Because the same holds for any other product I buy.
- pelasaco 3y ago
  > I do not see any excess here. You need to pay to compete. What you mean with pay to compete? The goal of Signal to exist is to offer a privacy oriented chat app. Non-profit companies serve a propose, and people not aligned with that, shouldn't be working there in the first place. If you join a non-profit to make money, you are doing it wrong.
  - taway1237 3y ago
    So all the programmers who work there should live on thin air? I agree that ideally the management should not be there for profit, but come on, the salaries are not even that crazy. I suspect FAANG key employees in that area easily earn multiples of that.
    - pelasaco 3y ago
      > Signal is competing with for profit companies for talented engineers and their > talented leaders. In Bay Area? I'm quite sure you get great people all around the World, or in USA, by much less.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        That line of thought is exactly why FAAMG companies tried to lower salaries for CoL when they opened up to more remote roles. I don't know if thst was fair, but it wasn't something appreciated by many engineers during the pandemic. It's also how and why long ago they tried to outsource a lot of engineering. They still do try. But that's not an easy transition either.

temptemptemp111 3y ago

[dead]

jefozabuss 3y ago

2M in comp distributed between 4 people is not a lot at this scale in my opinion.

philjohn 3y ago
For a nonprofit?
- EduardoBautista 3y ago
  A nonprofit doesn't mean it's a charity.
  - Lutger 3y ago
    A nonprofit asking for donations because of <good cause>? What is the definition of a charity then?
  - unsungNovelty 3y ago
    > 501(c)(3) tax-exemptions apply to entities that are organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary or educational purposes, for testing for public safety, to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals. Signal foundation is a non-profit 501(c)(3). It is literally and legally a charity.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Charities aren't charities in the colloquial sense of the word. It's not a truly altruistic collaboration of volunteers giving their time to help a cause. Non-profit simply means that every bit of revenue made goes back into the company instead of given out to shareholders. Which includes paying your labor. It being a non-profit is exactly why we can view the operating expenses and salaries of the public facing executives. For accountability.
theshrike79 3y ago
It is for a non-profit asking for donations. If they want half a mill salaries, they should become for-profit instead.
- anjel 3y ago
  The beauty of non profits is everyone thinks they're staffed with saints, when the truth is far less beatific.
  - moravak1984 3y ago
    Absolutely. A former student of mine worked for a non profit in Afghanistan (his home country) for a few years. Said non profit was flying in McKinsey consultants for very short gigs at six figures (USD). Same can be said about many LGBT non profits that have shifted their goals in the developed world on the "T" part of the acronym. On countries where marriage equality is a given, no one is going to fund an NGO focused on gay marriage... so they need a new cause to fight for.
    - _ugfj 3y ago
      to me this smells transphobic but it's possible the trans genocide several US states are working on made me oversensitive
      - rengle 3y ago
        [flagged]
        chx 3y ago
        > safeguarding of children against mutilation and sterilisation, I am so, so tired. None of that happens. GnRH analogues are commonly used in gender affirming care, these are reversible. Surgery is not done on minors. > the protection of women's single-sex spaces, Predatory men have absolutely no problems finding opportunities to predate on women. This made up crap need not happen. You are parroting sound bites on issues you have no understanding of. For the sake of humanity, literally, please stop and start reading. You are on a very dark path.
pas 3y ago
we ought to be well past this, if they want to be donation based they need efficiency. it's possible to run this from, let's say, Andalusia, and hire competent folks for a fraction of this.

fransje26 3y ago

> We estimate that by 2025, Signal will require approximately $50 million dollars a year to operate And from the link: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824506840 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824... - Other Salaries and Wages $9,665,761 - Executive Compensation $744,037 So about $10,400,000 a year in compensation and wages, or about 21% of their running costs.

darthrupert 3y ago
So if I give 5 euros, 1 of this will go to salaries. I'd say not terrible. I wouldn't be surprised if most charities are worse. One just have to get over the feeling that I'm donating to a charity of people who make 50x more money than I do with a comparable skill set.

_ugfj 3y ago

I find this hypocritical. C executives of tech orgs with world class products often have eight figures compensation -- if not from salary then from stock options. I do not see any excess here. You need to pay to compete.

Vinnl 3y ago
And you get a world-class service that a lot of people can use for free and keeps their communication private in return. I'll happily keep donating for that. I'm sure there are some costs that they could theoretically cut without consequence. Because the same holds for any other product I buy.
pelasaco 3y ago
> I do not see any excess here. You need to pay to compete. What you mean with pay to compete? The goal of Signal to exist is to offer a privacy oriented chat app. Non-profit companies serve a propose, and people not aligned with that, shouldn't be working there in the first place. If you join a non-profit to make money, you are doing it wrong.
- taway1237 3y ago
  So all the programmers who work there should live on thin air? I agree that ideally the management should not be there for profit, but come on, the salaries are not even that crazy. I suspect FAANG key employees in that area easily earn multiples of that.
  - pelasaco 3y ago
    > Signal is competing with for profit companies for talented engineers and their > talented leaders. In Bay Area? I'm quite sure you get great people all around the World, or in USA, by much less.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      That line of thought is exactly why FAAMG companies tried to lower salaries for CoL when they opened up to more remote roles. I don't know if thst was fair, but it wasn't something appreciated by many engineers during the pandemic. It's also how and why long ago they tried to outsource a lot of engineering. They still do try. But that's not an easy transition either.