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Or like carrots being good for eyesight, this is a convenient cover for other assets used. Eg, NATO observation craft or satellites. Per Wiki, we have a satel

Or like carrots being good for eyesight, this is a convenient cover for other assets used. Eg, NATO observation craft or satellites. Per Wiki, we have a satellite image from shortly after it was struck: > An image from a satellite with cloud-penetrating synthetic aperture radar (SAR) revealed that at 18:52 local time (UTC+03:00) on 13 April 2022, Moskva was located at 45°10′43.39″N 30°55′30.54″E, about 80 nautical miles (150 km) south of Odesa, east of Snake Island and around 50 nmi (90 km) from the Ukrainian coast. An analysis suggested this was not long after the damage occurred which caused the ship to eventually sink. In the image, the cruiser is accompanied by other vessels. And a US airplane in radar range when the attack happened: > There was a US Navy P-8A Poseidon maritime surveillance aircraft in the area before the sinking. The P-8A from Italy was patrolling within its radar range over the Black Sea and the US, when asked, did identify the ship as the Moskva as part of intelligence sharing to help Ukraine defend against attack from Russian ships. And a drone, likely operated by Ukraine: > The operation to sink Moskva may have been assisted by the use of at least one Bayraktar TB2 drone (UCAV), which seems to have observed the event and may have played other roles in the ship's sinking. […] > Mevlutoglu mentioned that Rear Admiral Oleksiy Neizhpapa, commander of the Ukrainian naval forces, had in the past suggested that TB2 drones would be used with Neptune launchers for target reconnaissance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva A boring but likely kill-chain: 1. SAR satellites spot the Moskva fleet. 2. US P-8 begins a track and feeds that data into shared intelligence. 3. US advisors alert Ukraine that Moskva is spotted and within engagement range. 4. Ukraine TB2 is flown on site, using that data. 5. Neptune launchers and missiles in flight are fed data from TB2.

fbdab103 3y ago
Agreed. There are so many potential observers who could have detected the craft, feels far more likely that there was someone who had a good bead on the target.
throwaway290 3y ago
If you are told "there's a sniper in that window" it's critical info but you still need to aim your gun precisely with your eyes since "that window" is big enough that you can shoot all your ammo before you hit. Radar is the eyes of anti-ship missiles
- andruby 3y ago
  The missile most certainly has a terminal radar to re-acquire the target after cruising close enough. In your analogy, you're firing a bullet in the right direction that can look and steer itself to the sniper.
contrarian1234 3y ago
> 5. Neptune launchers and missiles in flight are fed data from TB2. This part is really hard to believe. I briefly worked with radar systems (though nothing classified) These systems are all ancient and janky don't just integrate like lego. You can't just take a radar feed from a drone and feed it into the control system of a cruise missile lol Even AEGIS systems can't really do that effectively - let alone systems from two different countries (cutting edge military stuff is tech wise in like the 90s at best) It's not impossible, and it's wartime.. So maybe some Ukrainian engineers hacked something together - but I find this part very unlikely To me it seems much more likely they got a radar bounce back due to a freak weather phenomena
- hurryer 3y ago
  It's a single high value target. You can input the coordinate by hand.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    This sounds more reasonable. They may have been coming from the TB2, but they're being input by hand. - Shore radar + TB2 work up track on Moskva (heading, speed) - Missile launched to calculated intercept point - If Neptunes have midcourse correction (?), point updated if Moskva changes course
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  There’s literally a quote from an admiral discussing doing just that. I’m inclined to believe that a drone can relay targeting data as an admiral claimed over “freak radar returns” — as indirect fire is a standard event. The missile performs its final homing under its own guidance anyways.
justsomehnguy 3y ago
The key part here is what Moskva was alone there, without any other assets, which could provide additional AA cover. For whatever reasons it's own AA wasn't function properly so the chances to hit were exceptional. I don't believe some folks on the shore would just scan the sea beyond the horizon just in case they could get a lock. That's not how it works. Maybe they could get a lock (it's still a possibility) but that's the difference between the targeting mode only. It was a US intelligence operation from the start to the end.

fbdab103 3y ago

Agreed. There are so many potential observers who could have detected the craft, feels far more likely that there was someone who had a good bead on the target.

throwaway290 3y ago

If you are told "there's a sniper in that window" it's critical info but you still need to aim your gun precisely with your eyes since "that window" is big enough that you can shoot all your ammo before you hit. Radar is the eyes of anti-ship missiles

andruby 3y ago
The missile most certainly has a terminal radar to re-acquire the target after cruising close enough. In your analogy, you're firing a bullet in the right direction that can look and steer itself to the sniper.

contrarian1234 3y ago

> 5. Neptune launchers and missiles in flight are fed data from TB2. This part is really hard to believe. I briefly worked with radar systems (though nothing classified) These systems are all ancient and janky don't just integrate like lego. You can't just take a radar feed from a drone and feed it into the control system of a cruise missile lol Even AEGIS systems can't really do that effectively - let alone systems from two different countries (cutting edge military stuff is tech wise in like the 90s at best) It's not impossible, and it's wartime.. So maybe some Ukrainian engineers hacked something together - but I find this part very unlikely To me it seems much more likely they got a radar bounce back due to a freak weather phenomena

hurryer 3y ago
It's a single high value target. You can input the coordinate by hand.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  This sounds more reasonable. They may have been coming from the TB2, but they're being input by hand. - Shore radar + TB2 work up track on Moskva (heading, speed) - Missile launched to calculated intercept point - If Neptunes have midcourse correction (?), point updated if Moskva changes course
zmgsabst 3y ago
There’s literally a quote from an admiral discussing doing just that. I’m inclined to believe that a drone can relay targeting data as an admiral claimed over “freak radar returns” — as indirect fire is a standard event. The missile performs its final homing under its own guidance anyways.

justsomehnguy 3y ago

The key part here is what Moskva was alone there, without any other assets, which could provide additional AA cover. For whatever reasons it's own AA wasn't function properly so the chances to hit were exceptional. I don't believe some folks on the shore would just scan the sea beyond the horizon just in case they could get a lock. That's not how it works. Maybe they could get a lock (it's still a possibility) but that's the difference between the targeting mode only. It was a US intelligence operation from the start to the end.