11 ms·

Suppose you are buying a new laptop ... does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing trac

Suppose you are buying a new laptop ... does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing tracking data harvesting hybrid of a thing? But in the name of progress and security, you can't stay on Windows 10. So for me it's this weird middle ground right now .. waiting for either Windows to U-turn, die out, or for more work apps to port to OS X.

jhoechtl 3y ago
You didn't mention Linux by intention? Why?
- aetherspawn 3y ago
  Nothing against Linux but none of our line of business apps officially support it or even recognise that they may support it in the future.
tonymet 3y ago
In a few minutes you can make Windows 11 look pretty close to Windows 7 (or 10) by disabling personalization, content , widgets, new tab content. In edge disable all of the new tools and bing integration. You’re right about the hassle of doing it manually, and I wish there were a global “Windows 2k mode” that ran the OS as lean as possible.
- dannyw 3y ago
  Pay for Enterprise and a lot of it is pre disabled. Others can be configured via group policy.
  - t-writescode 3y ago
    How do you get access to enterprise? Last I looked, I believe you had to create a company-relationship with Microsoft to be allowed to do that and there was probably a lot more cruft to do. Edit: and a quick scan of the Microsoft website says that you need to "Contact Sales" still.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      For much of my career, I got free Enterprise licenses through an MSDN subscription through work. You can pay a similar amount to what your company pays for similar numbers of licenses across many OS's. Last I checked it was about ~500 USD a year. Sure, that's excessive for a single OS install, but if your company is footing the bill they usually don't care if you install on personal machines.
      - Semaphor 3y ago
        Huh, we have the action pack and I just checked, there’s indeed 10 Enterprise keys included. I should try to remember to ask my boss the next time I reinstall if I can grab one of those :D
    - WD40ForRust2 3y ago
      [dead]
- jchw 3y ago
  > In a few minutes That's a pretty big understatement to be honest. I don't use Windows anymore, but I still occasionally set up Windows for other people and there's so many annoyances that it's difficult to even enumerate all of them. Off the top of my head: - MSEdgeRedirect to stop Windows from opening Edge even when it's not your defualt browser. - Shutup10++ to quickly disable a bunch of crapware/unwanted features. (Some of these break things, too, so there is literally no way to make things "perfect".) - Have to remove a horde of advertising-ridden crapware too. Groove Music, Maps, etc. - Stopping the start menu from sending everything you type to Bing seems to be hard, too. I'm pretty sure there are multiple group policy items that sound like they would impact this, but I never seem to get the right one first try. It's kind of hard to find on Google too because it changes. - I do not know what the current best way to get Windows to stop trying to wake up computers for Windows Update at random hours (and often failing to do so.) I think there is a group policy option, but I think there's also a power options configuration (also in the registry obviously) that you need to change to maximally disable wakelocks. This one isn't necessarily Windows 11 specific, but it seems to have gotten worse over time. - A number of things are really hard to change: There are third party mods for the start menu and task bar, but they are not perfect at all; hacks that load the actual old start menu and task bar are limited and break with updates, unsurprisingly. You need to patch DWM to remove the window rounding behavior. And honestly, that still doesn't duplicate Windows 7 for me, and worse, the further you stray away the more likely things are to break during updates. The best I've found is Windows 10 LTSC but 1. I don't think consumers can legally license it (lol) 2. It doesn't work with a lot of software, e.g. Creative Suite has stopped supporting it I believe. So this solution sounds good on paper but it's also not always applicable. Lest you think paying extra for Windows 11 Pro for Workstations, just don't. It's nearly as heavy in crapware last I checked. It's kind of unbelievable that they still do that pre-installed app crap even if you pay them over $300 for the OS as if I fucking want it, but that's modern software for you. They literally won't sell you what you want at any price. (I also strongly believe that you should try to install Windows Firewall Control or some similar firewall before allowing the machine to reach the Internet. There's an amazing amount of non-sense that gets sent to the Internet regardless of whether you consent to it. Not sure that all of it is actually a huge privacy concern, but I don't really care anymore; at this point it's out of spite.)
6510 3y ago
No man, it is a fantastic adventure! Like a video game you have to carefully move the mouse to not trigger popups, there are quests on how to disable things and you have to make choices with real consequences. The game is almost as good as HP printers. In the end, if we collectively press the wrong button often enough, things will get bad enough to intellectually enrage the law makers. Or perhaps it will just turn into a self running slot machine powered by tokens earned though full screen always on top porn adverts while AI guesses what kind of work you would otherwise be trying to get done. No more subscriptions or products to purchase: Unlock 3 extra days of Excel by buying something on Amazon! Maybe workers will have to defeat n levels of candy crush to unlock Word processing for the day. Perhaps always-on PC's will become the norm and Bing will watch and guide us 24/7 - into the future!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
darkclouds 3y ago
[dead]
just_boost_it 3y ago
I got a mac for the first time this year. Honestly, it feels like taking a shower after getting home from the beach on a sunny day when you've been wearing sunscreen. Everything just works with no extra garbage, no constant intrusive updates, no hassle. The only issue I had was the lack of alt-tab, and that was solved by an app called alt-tab.
- exabrial 3y ago
  brah... control-tab or even better: control-tilde
  - just_boost_it 3y ago
    Neither does exactly what alt-tab does! Now command-tab does what I want.
  - explaininjs 3y ago
    The Windows approach of one button for cycling through windows is a bit less mental overhead than needing multiple keyboard shortcuts to first cycle through applications then windows in that application. In windows you just mash the key until the thing you want comes up.
- makingstuffs 3y ago
  I know of this app which allows you to port that functionality: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ Disclaimer: I have never used it, one of my colleagues mentioned it a while ago.
  - johnsea 3y ago
    It works well; I use it together with Karabiner such that shortcuts are closer to what I have on Linux and Windows
- akmittal 3y ago
  Having moved to mac 4 years ago I can't think of going back to windows. Only downside I find is you need to buy Apple hardware at premium to experience MacOS
davkan 3y ago
Throw Linux in the mix and give up on Windows. Most everything runs in WINE.
mutex_man 3y ago
My process for a new laptop for the last decade or so has just been to nuke Windows and immediately install Linux. The only machine I own that runs windows is my home gaming PC due to many online/competitive games not supporting proton or other tools. Thankfully I work for a company who happily allows me to continue this practice with my work laptop. My last and current work laptops have run NixOS and it's been great.
- jszymborski 3y ago
  I always deploy the DBAN when I get my hands on a new laptop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darik's_Boot_and_Nuke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darik's_Boot_and_Nuke
  - isoprophlex 3y ago
    > DBAN can be configured to automatically wipe every hard disk that it sees on a system or entire network of systems, making it very useful for unattended data destruction scenarios. Bored, belligerent 14 year old me would have loved to get his hands on this...
    - jtriangle 3y ago
      Bored 14 year old me basically had this, it was pretty booring. Destroying data mechanically with a sledge hammer was much more fun.
  - Sanzig 3y ago
    Somewhat off-topic, but fun fact about Darik of DBAN fame - he landed himself in hot water a few years ago when it was revealed he was a founding member of a white nationalist Canadian political party [1]. The party was later dissolved due to inactivity when its leader went to prison for antisemitic hate crimes [2] [1] https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/he-says-he-works-security-for-maxime-bernier-hes-also-listed-as-a-founding-member/article_68850455-71a0-5e71-ae65-041b61887465.html https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/he-says-he-works-securit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Nationalist_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Nationalist_Party
Frivolous9421 3y ago
Sure wish there were some kind of free and open source alternative written by human beings
gotoeleven 3y ago
It all makes sense once you know that Windows 11 actually started out as a tool to help medical schools train doctors to spot symptoms of stroke, Microsoft Stroke Simulator 2019.
boppo1 3y ago
Xubuntu is excellent
Zandikar 3y ago
> does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing tracking data harvesting hybrid of a thing? I'm just surprised it took them this long tbh. Windows used to set the standard for enshittification. Now that they're chasing cloud-based windows, I see they're returning to form.
corethree 3y ago
Linux is pretty good. I use all three.
binkHN 3y ago
Surprisingly, I'm not sad at all. I've been using Windows for a long time and recently purchased a new computer with Windows 11. It's such an abomination that it forced me to try Linux for the very first time on my production machine, and I'm very pleased with the results. A thank you to Microsoft for giving me a reason to look somewhere else, and a sincere thank you to the open source community for all the work they've put into Linux on the desktop.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  There are some downsides to Linux, though. For example if you are made to use Windows at work you will feel sad, having seen what else is possible.
  - 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
    you can access windows rdp from linux so there is that. i have a work machine that is w10 but i have neon. i use krdc/remina to rdp into it and everything just works. there is vm you can do but yeah, there are options
  - binkHN 3y ago
    Fair. I still have a Windows VM that I keep around; looking forward to the day that I can delete it.
    - 3seashells 3y ago
      Amber OS.. Unchanging, fossilized, windows 7, without internet, one restore point..
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    If you don't like the tools you're given at your job, look for a better job. Having to put up with a less-than-ideal work environment is part of the job, and it's your job to evaluate the job offer and how it compares to other offers (salary, benefits, location, work quality/type of work, work environment). I use Linux at work, and have for many years, but of course not everything is ideal: I'd like to have more control over the HVAC for instance. It's not enough to make me look for a new job, though, but perhaps for some people it could be. Having to use Windows for development, however, would be a hard no for me. But for some Windows haters, other factors might be enough to make them put up with it: high salary, convenient location, etc.
cmcaleer 3y ago
This frustrated me for years but I just grinned and borne with it because game compatibility and WSL meant I could do basically anything I wanted in Windows and it was what I knew. Then one day WSL wasn't enough due to dumb compatibility reasons so I decided to dual boot Ubuntu. Then very shortly after I just... stopped booting in to Windows for anything other than gaming. It was very strange. I've shitposted about year of the Linux desktop since I was a teenager but I never thought it would actually happen to me. It's not a buttery smooth transition - not by a long shot, but I'll take dumb Discord updating behaviour over random updates which make me panic that I downloaded malware from a Google ad. The time I spend on what I would consider dumb bullshit where I'm fighting the OS is about the same.
- bigstrat2003 3y ago
  Honestly, you don't even need Windows for gaming for the most part. 90% or more of the games I play run on Proton without any tweaking needed. The few exceptions are games which use anti cheat rootkits, games which I want to stream to my friends in discord (which doesn't pick up audio on Linux), and CP2077 (which doesn't seem to like ray tracing in proton). I was very pleasantly surprised how smooth gaming on Linux is. I maintain a Windows 10 install and will for the foreseeable future, just for the odd cases where I need it. But I rarely boot into it any more.
rvdginste 3y ago
Been using Debian Linux as my main os for over 20 years. And happy that there’s less and less of a need to run a Windows vm. But even though most people are not happy with the recent evolution of Windows, most people will complain and then use it anyway. And Microsoft will get away with it and will take another step with the next release…
- binkHN 3y ago
  Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot; Windows is dying and they are milking what's left. The new generation will not touch Windows with a 20 foot pole.
  - atoav 3y ago
    You are describing my sentiment perfectly: I amn not using it if I can avoid it. But I am not sure if I will be able to do that.
  - lofaszvanitt 3y ago
    Yeah, 1,3 billion more to go...
SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
Man, I would LOVE to recommend OSX, but can’t. It’s too much spying, erm telemetry. Apple monitors every app opening every time. I can’t give up a shitty big brother for only a slightly less shitty one. I moved to Linux Mint with a Windows VM at work for the couple of required things (Office) and while I wouldn’t say it’s painless in any way. I’m personally ready for it. I tried 10 years ago and was not. So, I think if you can handle it, Linux, then OSX, but Windows is becoming a no go for anyone serious about privacy or security.
sundvor 3y ago
Win11 Pro user here. It doesn't require too much effort to tame the beast. Until the shit is gone, sure it's not nice - and you still benefit from taking the installer offline mid-way so that you can choose your own username and such, which is a pita. But once sorted, it's a great and very responsive ui. And at least with Windows 11, as opposed to Win 10, I can tell the different windows apart, with a certain level of border consistency. Win10 made it all an atrocious blur, it really did my head in (eg Teams/VSCode all blending into one black canvas of hell). I use WSL2 (Ubuntu 22.04) for most of my work, have a beastly, latest generation PC that I built myself with 4 monitors + a stream deck all profile mounted - and am very happy with it.
- bigstrat2003 3y ago
  It doesn't matter how much effort it is, though. It's unacceptable that one has to do it at all. I paid for Windows 10, I should get an experience that prioritizes my needs (or at least the needs of users generally). Not one which prioritizes Microsoft corporate profits.
  - sundvor 3y ago
    I don't disagree at all. The (out of the box) cacophony of internet content jammed into every nook and cranny does my head in completely. I care much more about that than the telemetry stuff, but I completely appreciate that others care equally or more about the latter. Once the crap is gone, the experience is awesome. It's such a shame they have to push it this way. I'd bloody pay extra for a lean edition.
enqk 3y ago
It makes me sad because I think there are some genuinely cool things in the windows ecosystem such as the debugging and dev experience (ETW) and as users we benefit a lot from the backwards compatibility. Its also cool to have a kind of descendant of VMS being here as an alternative to a unix monoculture
dilippkumar 3y ago
> Suppose you are buying a new laptop ... does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing tracking data harvesting hybrid of a thing? I purchased a thinkpad without any operating system on it and installed openBSD. I would not recommend this to someone coming from Windows land, but once you’ve been around the linux side for a while, you should come check openBSD out. It’s really really nice.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
I evaluated my choices. Getting rid of all Windows telemetry, cortana, bing etc = 5 minutes with w10privacy. Running Forsa 5 on Mac - in a few years, maybe. Learning all the command line switches of Linux - never in my lifetime. So I chose the shortest path.
- atoav 3y ago
  A legitimate choice. Howevever whether it is truly a wise one depends a bit on what you are doing. If what you are doing with a computer involves the need to "know all command line switches", then you will also have to know command line switches on Windows. A linux for the most part nowadays can be used without command line. When you jave to use it, it would be customization or installation of certain experimental software that isn't in the software center (and that is usually copy paste).
endgame 3y ago
I keep saying that Linux is now the best of the three major desktop OSes, and it's not because it's improved that much. We have regressed so far in UI and user abuse.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  It has been the best OS for such a long time. Hardware support will just be miserable for the foreseeable future. I was eyeing at the options available to dual-boot a recentish Surface Pro, and it was a grand total of 0. Now, it's not a big issue since WSL2, but it would still have been nice.
ChatGTP 3y ago
No because I use Linux and every time I sit at my computer I say "thank you" to myself because of it. I own Apple products too. But for real work, I use Linux.
CalRobert 3y ago
I've been happily using Linux on the desktop for a decade.
bigstrat2003 3y ago
> But in the name of progress and security, you can't stay on Windows 10. If I hadn't switched to Linux, I would absolutely be staying on Windows 10 until such time as Microsoft stops making a user hostile OS. The rather low threat of my machine getting owned because I can't get security patches any more is far less onerous to me than what Microsoft is doing these days.
pjmlp 3y ago
We can stay on Windows 10 until 2025, and even that is kind of open to debate if there is too much business pressure. As ex-UNIX zealot, those that during university days used M$ on the email signature (most likely still visible in some online archives), Windows is for me still the lesser problematic. I like Apple's hardware, however I am not paying their tax, when PC gaming laptops offer me more, rather have them as work issued laptops, and in what concerns GNU/Linux I no longer have tinkering needs, been using it via VMs instead of dual boot, since VMWare became good enough for such purpose. On laptops, even those sold with Linux pre-installed there is always something missing, or one needs to be stuck with the custom OEM distribution, possibly without major kernel updates.
WD40ForRust2 3y ago
I switched to Qubes OS as my daily driver way earlier this year and I absolutely love it! It has a couple pain points (it's difficult to get a GPU passed through without tweaks, performance for certain kinds of loads may be suboptimal). It feels really good that the DominationGPT malware will have to break out of Xen to pwn me!

jhoechtl 3y ago

You didn't mention Linux by intention? Why?

aetherspawn 3y ago
Nothing against Linux but none of our line of business apps officially support it or even recognise that they may support it in the future.

tonymet 3y ago

In a few minutes you can make Windows 11 look pretty close to Windows 7 (or 10) by disabling personalization, content , widgets, new tab content. In edge disable all of the new tools and bing integration. You’re right about the hassle of doing it manually, and I wish there were a global “Windows 2k mode” that ran the OS as lean as possible.

dannyw 3y ago
Pay for Enterprise and a lot of it is pre disabled. Others can be configured via group policy.
- t-writescode 3y ago
  How do you get access to enterprise? Last I looked, I believe you had to create a company-relationship with Microsoft to be allowed to do that and there was probably a lot more cruft to do. Edit: and a quick scan of the Microsoft website says that you need to "Contact Sales" still.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    For much of my career, I got free Enterprise licenses through an MSDN subscription through work. You can pay a similar amount to what your company pays for similar numbers of licenses across many OS's. Last I checked it was about ~500 USD a year. Sure, that's excessive for a single OS install, but if your company is footing the bill they usually don't care if you install on personal machines.
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      Huh, we have the action pack and I just checked, there’s indeed 10 Enterprise keys included. I should try to remember to ask my boss the next time I reinstall if I can grab one of those :D
  - WD40ForRust2 3y ago
    [dead]
jchw 3y ago
> In a few minutes That's a pretty big understatement to be honest. I don't use Windows anymore, but I still occasionally set up Windows for other people and there's so many annoyances that it's difficult to even enumerate all of them. Off the top of my head: - MSEdgeRedirect to stop Windows from opening Edge even when it's not your defualt browser. - Shutup10++ to quickly disable a bunch of crapware/unwanted features. (Some of these break things, too, so there is literally no way to make things "perfect".) - Have to remove a horde of advertising-ridden crapware too. Groove Music, Maps, etc. - Stopping the start menu from sending everything you type to Bing seems to be hard, too. I'm pretty sure there are multiple group policy items that sound like they would impact this, but I never seem to get the right one first try. It's kind of hard to find on Google too because it changes. - I do not know what the current best way to get Windows to stop trying to wake up computers for Windows Update at random hours (and often failing to do so.) I think there is a group policy option, but I think there's also a power options configuration (also in the registry obviously) that you need to change to maximally disable wakelocks. This one isn't necessarily Windows 11 specific, but it seems to have gotten worse over time. - A number of things are really hard to change: There are third party mods for the start menu and task bar, but they are not perfect at all; hacks that load the actual old start menu and task bar are limited and break with updates, unsurprisingly. You need to patch DWM to remove the window rounding behavior. And honestly, that still doesn't duplicate Windows 7 for me, and worse, the further you stray away the more likely things are to break during updates. The best I've found is Windows 10 LTSC but 1. I don't think consumers can legally license it (lol) 2. It doesn't work with a lot of software, e.g. Creative Suite has stopped supporting it I believe. So this solution sounds good on paper but it's also not always applicable. Lest you think paying extra for Windows 11 Pro for Workstations, just don't. It's nearly as heavy in crapware last I checked. It's kind of unbelievable that they still do that pre-installed app crap even if you pay them over $300 for the OS as if I fucking want it, but that's modern software for you. They literally won't sell you what you want at any price. (I also strongly believe that you should try to install Windows Firewall Control or some similar firewall before allowing the machine to reach the Internet. There's an amazing amount of non-sense that gets sent to the Internet regardless of whether you consent to it. Not sure that all of it is actually a huge privacy concern, but I don't really care anymore; at this point it's out of spite.)

6510 3y ago

No man, it is a fantastic adventure! Like a video game you have to carefully move the mouse to not trigger popups, there are quests on how to disable things and you have to make choices with real consequences. The game is almost as good as HP printers. In the end, if we collectively press the wrong button often enough, things will get bad enough to intellectually enrage the law makers. Or perhaps it will just turn into a self running slot machine powered by tokens earned though full screen always on top porn adverts while AI guesses what kind of work you would otherwise be trying to get done. No more subscriptions or products to purchase: Unlock 3 extra days of Excel by buying something on Amazon! Maybe workers will have to defeat n levels of candy crush to unlock Word processing for the day. Perhaps always-on PC's will become the norm and Bing will watch and guide us 24/7 - into the future!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

darkclouds 3y ago

[dead]

just_boost_it 3y ago

I got a mac for the first time this year. Honestly, it feels like taking a shower after getting home from the beach on a sunny day when you've been wearing sunscreen. Everything just works with no extra garbage, no constant intrusive updates, no hassle. The only issue I had was the lack of alt-tab, and that was solved by an app called alt-tab.

exabrial 3y ago
brah... control-tab or even better: control-tilde
- just_boost_it 3y ago
  Neither does exactly what alt-tab does! Now command-tab does what I want.
- explaininjs 3y ago
  The Windows approach of one button for cycling through windows is a bit less mental overhead than needing multiple keyboard shortcuts to first cycle through applications then windows in that application. In windows you just mash the key until the thing you want comes up.
makingstuffs 3y ago
I know of this app which allows you to port that functionality: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ Disclaimer: I have never used it, one of my colleagues mentioned it a while ago.
- johnsea 3y ago
  It works well; I use it together with Karabiner such that shortcuts are closer to what I have on Linux and Windows
akmittal 3y ago
Having moved to mac 4 years ago I can't think of going back to windows. Only downside I find is you need to buy Apple hardware at premium to experience MacOS

davkan 3y ago

Throw Linux in the mix and give up on Windows. Most everything runs in WINE.

mutex_man 3y ago

My process for a new laptop for the last decade or so has just been to nuke Windows and immediately install Linux. The only machine I own that runs windows is my home gaming PC due to many online/competitive games not supporting proton or other tools. Thankfully I work for a company who happily allows me to continue this practice with my work laptop. My last and current work laptops have run NixOS and it's been great.

jszymborski 3y ago
I always deploy the DBAN when I get my hands on a new laptop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darik's_Boot_and_Nuke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darik's_Boot_and_Nuke
- isoprophlex 3y ago
  > DBAN can be configured to automatically wipe every hard disk that it sees on a system or entire network of systems, making it very useful for unattended data destruction scenarios. Bored, belligerent 14 year old me would have loved to get his hands on this...
  - jtriangle 3y ago
    Bored 14 year old me basically had this, it was pretty booring. Destroying data mechanically with a sledge hammer was much more fun.
- Sanzig 3y ago
  Somewhat off-topic, but fun fact about Darik of DBAN fame - he landed himself in hot water a few years ago when it was revealed he was a founding member of a white nationalist Canadian political party [1]. The party was later dissolved due to inactivity when its leader went to prison for antisemitic hate crimes [2] [1] https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/he-says-he-works-security-for-maxime-bernier-hes-also-listed-as-a-founding-member/article_68850455-71a0-5e71-ae65-041b61887465.html https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/he-says-he-works-securit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Nationalist_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Nationalist_Party

Frivolous9421 3y ago

Sure wish there were some kind of free and open source alternative written by human beings

gotoeleven 3y ago

It all makes sense once you know that Windows 11 actually started out as a tool to help medical schools train doctors to spot symptoms of stroke, Microsoft Stroke Simulator 2019.

boppo1 3y ago

Xubuntu is excellent

Zandikar 3y ago

> does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing tracking data harvesting hybrid of a thing? I'm just surprised it took them this long tbh. Windows used to set the standard for enshittification. Now that they're chasing cloud-based windows, I see they're returning to form.

corethree 3y ago

Linux is pretty good. I use all three.

binkHN 3y ago

Surprisingly, I'm not sad at all. I've been using Windows for a long time and recently purchased a new computer with Windows 11. It's such an abomination that it forced me to try Linux for the very first time on my production machine, and I'm very pleased with the results. A thank you to Microsoft for giving me a reason to look somewhere else, and a sincere thank you to the open source community for all the work they've put into Linux on the desktop.

bee_rider 3y ago
There are some downsides to Linux, though. For example if you are made to use Windows at work you will feel sad, having seen what else is possible.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
  you can access windows rdp from linux so there is that. i have a work machine that is w10 but i have neon. i use krdc/remina to rdp into it and everything just works. there is vm you can do but yeah, there are options
- binkHN 3y ago
  Fair. I still have a Windows VM that I keep around; looking forward to the day that I can delete it.
  - 3seashells 3y ago
    Amber OS.. Unchanging, fossilized, windows 7, without internet, one restore point..
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  If you don't like the tools you're given at your job, look for a better job. Having to put up with a less-than-ideal work environment is part of the job, and it's your job to evaluate the job offer and how it compares to other offers (salary, benefits, location, work quality/type of work, work environment). I use Linux at work, and have for many years, but of course not everything is ideal: I'd like to have more control over the HVAC for instance. It's not enough to make me look for a new job, though, but perhaps for some people it could be. Having to use Windows for development, however, would be a hard no for me. But for some Windows haters, other factors might be enough to make them put up with it: high salary, convenient location, etc.

cmcaleer 3y ago

This frustrated me for years but I just grinned and borne with it because game compatibility and WSL meant I could do basically anything I wanted in Windows and it was what I knew. Then one day WSL wasn't enough due to dumb compatibility reasons so I decided to dual boot Ubuntu. Then very shortly after I just... stopped booting in to Windows for anything other than gaming. It was very strange. I've shitposted about year of the Linux desktop since I was a teenager but I never thought it would actually happen to me. It's not a buttery smooth transition - not by a long shot, but I'll take dumb Discord updating behaviour over random updates which make me panic that I downloaded malware from a Google ad. The time I spend on what I would consider dumb bullshit where I'm fighting the OS is about the same.

bigstrat2003 3y ago
Honestly, you don't even need Windows for gaming for the most part. 90% or more of the games I play run on Proton without any tweaking needed. The few exceptions are games which use anti cheat rootkits, games which I want to stream to my friends in discord (which doesn't pick up audio on Linux), and CP2077 (which doesn't seem to like ray tracing in proton). I was very pleasantly surprised how smooth gaming on Linux is. I maintain a Windows 10 install and will for the foreseeable future, just for the odd cases where I need it. But I rarely boot into it any more.

rvdginste 3y ago

Been using Debian Linux as my main os for over 20 years. And happy that there’s less and less of a need to run a Windows vm. But even though most people are not happy with the recent evolution of Windows, most people will complain and then use it anyway. And Microsoft will get away with it and will take another step with the next release…

binkHN 3y ago
Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot; Windows is dying and they are milking what's left. The new generation will not touch Windows with a 20 foot pole.
- atoav 3y ago
  You are describing my sentiment perfectly: I amn not using it if I can avoid it. But I am not sure if I will be able to do that.
- lofaszvanitt 3y ago
  Yeah, 1,3 billion more to go...

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago

Man, I would LOVE to recommend OSX, but can’t. It’s too much spying, erm telemetry. Apple monitors every app opening every time. I can’t give up a shitty big brother for only a slightly less shitty one. I moved to Linux Mint with a Windows VM at work for the couple of required things (Office) and while I wouldn’t say it’s painless in any way. I’m personally ready for it. I tried 10 years ago and was not. So, I think if you can handle it, Linux, then OSX, but Windows is becoming a no go for anyone serious about privacy or security.

sundvor 3y ago

Win11 Pro user here. It doesn't require too much effort to tame the beast. Until the shit is gone, sure it's not nice - and you still benefit from taking the installer offline mid-way so that you can choose your own username and such, which is a pita. But once sorted, it's a great and very responsive ui. And at least with Windows 11, as opposed to Win 10, I can tell the different windows apart, with a certain level of border consistency. Win10 made it all an atrocious blur, it really did my head in (eg Teams/VSCode all blending into one black canvas of hell). I use WSL2 (Ubuntu 22.04) for most of my work, have a beastly, latest generation PC that I built myself with 4 monitors + a stream deck all profile mounted - and am very happy with it.

bigstrat2003 3y ago
It doesn't matter how much effort it is, though. It's unacceptable that one has to do it at all. I paid for Windows 10, I should get an experience that prioritizes my needs (or at least the needs of users generally). Not one which prioritizes Microsoft corporate profits.
- sundvor 3y ago
  I don't disagree at all. The (out of the box) cacophony of internet content jammed into every nook and cranny does my head in completely. I care much more about that than the telemetry stuff, but I completely appreciate that others care equally or more about the latter. Once the crap is gone, the experience is awesome. It's such a shame they have to push it this way. I'd bloody pay extra for a lean edition.

enqk 3y ago

It makes me sad because I think there are some genuinely cool things in the windows ecosystem such as the debugging and dev experience (ETW) and as users we benefit a lot from the backwards compatibility. Its also cool to have a kind of descendant of VMS being here as an alternative to a unix monoculture

dilippkumar 3y ago

> Suppose you are buying a new laptop ... does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing tracking data harvesting hybrid of a thing? I purchased a thinkpad without any operating system on it and installed openBSD. I would not recommend this to someone coming from Windows land, but once you’ve been around the linux side for a while, you should come check openBSD out. It’s really really nice.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago

I evaluated my choices. Getting rid of all Windows telemetry, cortana, bing etc = 5 minutes with w10privacy. Running Forsa 5 on Mac - in a few years, maybe. Learning all the command line switches of Linux - never in my lifetime. So I chose the shortest path.

atoav 3y ago
A legitimate choice. Howevever whether it is truly a wise one depends a bit on what you are doing. If what you are doing with a computer involves the need to "know all command line switches", then you will also have to know command line switches on Windows. A linux for the most part nowadays can be used without command line. When you jave to use it, it would be customization or installation of certain experimental software that isn't in the software center (and that is usually copy paste).

endgame 3y ago

I keep saying that Linux is now the best of the three major desktop OSes, and it's not because it's improved that much. We have regressed so far in UI and user abuse.

makeitdouble 3y ago
It has been the best OS for such a long time. Hardware support will just be miserable for the foreseeable future. I was eyeing at the options available to dual-boot a recentish Surface Pro, and it was a grand total of 0. Now, it's not a big issue since WSL2, but it would still have been nice.

ChatGTP 3y ago

No because I use Linux and every time I sit at my computer I say "thank you" to myself because of it. I own Apple products too. But for real work, I use Linux.

CalRobert 3y ago

I've been happily using Linux on the desktop for a decade.

bigstrat2003 3y ago

> But in the name of progress and security, you can't stay on Windows 10. If I hadn't switched to Linux, I would absolutely be staying on Windows 10 until such time as Microsoft stops making a user hostile OS. The rather low threat of my machine getting owned because I can't get security patches any more is far less onerous to me than what Microsoft is doing these days.

pjmlp 3y ago

We can stay on Windows 10 until 2025, and even that is kind of open to debate if there is too much business pressure. As ex-UNIX zealot, those that during university days used M$ on the email signature (most likely still visible in some online archives), Windows is for me still the lesser problematic. I like Apple's hardware, however I am not paying their tax, when PC gaming laptops offer me more, rather have them as work issued laptops, and in what concerns GNU/Linux I no longer have tinkering needs, been using it via VMs instead of dual boot, since VMWare became good enough for such purpose. On laptops, even those sold with Linux pre-installed there is always something missing, or one needs to be stuck with the custom OEM distribution, possibly without major kernel updates.

WD40ForRust2 3y ago

I switched to Qubes OS as my daily driver way earlier this year and I absolutely love it! It has a couple pain points (it's difficult to get a GPU passed through without tweaks, performance for certain kinds of loads may be suboptimal). It feels really good that the DominationGPT malware will have to break out of Xen to pwn me!