3 ms·

> Ideally, yes - but the US is lacking in rail infrastructure, so the US needs zero-emission, road-based, logistics solutions. Are you aware that the US has th

> Ideally, yes - but the US is lacking in rail infrastructure, so the US needs zero-emission, road-based, logistics solutions. Are you aware that the US has the largest rail network of any country in the world, almost the size of the next two (both of whom are geographically larger than the US) combined?

DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
> Are you aware that the US has the largest rail network of any country in the world, almost the size of the next two (both of whom are geographically larger than the US) combined? Well of course, the US is a big country - but the overall density of rail (both freight and passenger rail) is lacking compared to Europe (and China too, I think?). I live in the Seattle metro area where the major cities (Everett, Seattle, and Tacoma) do have adequate freight rail accessibility, but none of the smaller and medium sized towns and cities elsewhere in the metro have any kind of rail connection to that main west-coast rail corridor, so they're reliant on road trucks to move goods in/out of those larger cities. ...whereas my part of the north-west of the UK (where I try to spend a good chunk of the year, where-possible) has rail connections between practically every small town, even many (most?) hamlets. Even local supermarkets use the rail network: https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2022/01/21/tesco-and-direct-rail-services-renew-supermarket-partnership/ https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2022/01/21/tesco-and...
- jcranmer 3y ago
  If you measure by mode share, the US railroad industry actually has a higher mode share than most European countries. The main issue with the freight rail industry in the US is that it's over-optimizing for the ultra-long-haul extreme bulk delivery--essentially acting as extensions of ports 1000's of miles inland--and abandoning local freight (where you drop off a car or two once a month or so) in the process. But that's not really caused by lack of rail infrastructure, which was your original complaint.
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    The ideal would be electrified trains for long distance, and battery semis for local. The rail companies have not been looking after their infrastructure since they are cutting costs heavily. I read that one reason for Amtrak's poor performance is that freight railroads have single-tracked lines and removed passing sections leading to passenger trains stuck by freight trains.
- saalweachter 3y ago
  The US rail freight volume was 2.2 trillion tonne-km in 2022, compared to 400 billion tonne-km shipped in Europe. Meanwhile, US road freight was about 3.6 trillion tkm, and EU road freight 2 trillion tkm. So not only does the US do about 5x the rail freight of the EU, US rail is about 38% of freight, compared to 17% in the EU.
Solvency 3y ago
And yet, full of problems, isn't it.
ketzo 3y ago
That can be true, and we can still be lacking. Passenger rail usage rates are abysmal.
- tptacek 3y ago
  We're talking about cargo, not passengers, right?
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  The US is too big for long-distance passenger rail. Where density is high enough, local rail mass transit exists.
  - jcranmer 3y ago
    Most of the US lives east of the Mississippi River, where population density is commensurate with Europe. No one seriously proposes HSR from SF to Boston, but HSR from, say, Chicago to NYC is within the bounds of viability. And it's frankly criminal that we don't have 4h travel times from Boston to DC. As I've said in the past, the only cities of the 50 largest in the US that are unquestionably out of HSR range are Denver and Salt Lake City, with Memphis, Birmingham, and Oklahoma City on the fringes of viability (from most to least viable). The other 45 cities? Totally viable.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      If Amtrak was allowed to ditch its expensive long haul rail lines and focus on reinvesting in Acela we could have those 4h travel times and they would turn a profit at the same time.

DaiPlusPlus 3y ago

> Are you aware that the US has the largest rail network of any country in the world, almost the size of the next two (both of whom are geographically larger than the US) combined? Well of course, the US is a big country - but the overall density of rail (both freight and passenger rail) is lacking compared to Europe (and China too, I think?). I live in the Seattle metro area where the major cities (Everett, Seattle, and Tacoma) do have adequate freight rail accessibility, but none of the smaller and medium sized towns and cities elsewhere in the metro have any kind of rail connection to that main west-coast rail corridor, so they're reliant on road trucks to move goods in/out of those larger cities. ...whereas my part of the north-west of the UK (where I try to spend a good chunk of the year, where-possible) has rail connections between practically every small town, even many (most?) hamlets. Even local supermarkets use the rail network: https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2022/01/21/tesco-and-direct-rail-services-renew-supermarket-partnership/ https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2022/01/21/tesco-and...

jcranmer 3y ago
If you measure by mode share, the US railroad industry actually has a higher mode share than most European countries. The main issue with the freight rail industry in the US is that it's over-optimizing for the ultra-long-haul extreme bulk delivery--essentially acting as extensions of ports 1000's of miles inland--and abandoning local freight (where you drop off a car or two once a month or so) in the process. But that's not really caused by lack of rail infrastructure, which was your original complaint.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  The ideal would be electrified trains for long distance, and battery semis for local. The rail companies have not been looking after their infrastructure since they are cutting costs heavily. I read that one reason for Amtrak's poor performance is that freight railroads have single-tracked lines and removed passing sections leading to passenger trains stuck by freight trains.
saalweachter 3y ago
The US rail freight volume was 2.2 trillion tonne-km in 2022, compared to 400 billion tonne-km shipped in Europe. Meanwhile, US road freight was about 3.6 trillion tkm, and EU road freight 2 trillion tkm. So not only does the US do about 5x the rail freight of the EU, US rail is about 38% of freight, compared to 17% in the EU.

Solvency 3y ago

And yet, full of problems, isn't it.

ketzo 3y ago

That can be true, and we can still be lacking. Passenger rail usage rates are abysmal.

tptacek 3y ago
We're talking about cargo, not passengers, right?
SoftTalker 3y ago
The US is too big for long-distance passenger rail. Where density is high enough, local rail mass transit exists.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  Most of the US lives east of the Mississippi River, where population density is commensurate with Europe. No one seriously proposes HSR from SF to Boston, but HSR from, say, Chicago to NYC is within the bounds of viability. And it's frankly criminal that we don't have 4h travel times from Boston to DC. As I've said in the past, the only cities of the 50 largest in the US that are unquestionably out of HSR range are Denver and Salt Lake City, with Memphis, Birmingham, and Oklahoma City on the fringes of viability (from most to least viable). The other 45 cities? Totally viable.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    If Amtrak was allowed to ditch its expensive long haul rail lines and focus on reinvesting in Acela we could have those 4h travel times and they would turn a profit at the same time.