4 ms·

This seems kind of par for the course. What I find strange is that there are busses[1] operating economically with similar time of use (but not top speed) requi

This seems kind of par for the course. What I find strange is that there are busses[1] operating economically with similar time of use (but not top speed) requirements. The whole "car parts scaled up to truck size" is super on brand for their chief technologist. I'm also seeing a bunch of Rivian trucks and Ford E150 lightnings on the roads around the Bay Area which, for me, doesn't bode well for the launch of the Tesla truck either. If the Starship blows up tonight I imagine that's going to add stress too. I really wish Elon would pick cars or rockets and focus, that could really help the world. I'm not holding my breath though. [1] https://evmagazine.com/top10/top-10-electric-bus-companies https://evmagazine.com/top10/top-10-electric-bus-companies

schneems 3y ago
The first time I saw a cyber truck on the road in Austin I literally laughed out loud. It was that startling. I’m sure that will fade, but it’s a very comical first impression.
- metadat 3y ago
  Yes, 100% with you. The cybertruck is the ugliest, most offensive looking car I've ever seen. I also LOL'd. My previous comment at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37935293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37935293
  - avar 3y ago
    If you're buying a truck as a fashion accessory you'll care about the look, for anyone else being able to weld or bolt stuff to a sturdy stainless steel frame is a feature.
  - mrDmrTmrJ 3y ago
    I saw one driving down El Camino (Palo Alto CA) and thought it looked great. Respectfully, what generation are you? (Approximately how old are you?) I ask as there are really big difference in how it appeals to different demographics. And all the guys who saw the vehicle with me thought it looked really good. (Admittedly we're former engineering students, so your milage may very...)
    - schneems 3y ago
      I have a mechanical engineering degree, but IDK why that’s relevant. I demographically live in a state with a LOT of trucks and it sticks out, not in a good way. I say this as someone who loves weird car designs. I’m on /r/weirdwheels and I genuinely think the BMW i3 looks fun. I’m okay with funny looking cars that are self aware (like a Prius with a “cool Prius said no one” sticker). But the cyber truck isn’t that, it’s taking itself too seriously it’s trying too hard. Which makes the dissonance funny. I respect your opinion is different, I’m asking you to respect my lived experience too. I guess I’m just not their target audience.
rootusrootus 3y ago
Tesla just makes the biggest headlines. Freightliner had an electric class 8 truck in production before the Tesla. And they're not the only other company doing it. I trust Freightliner to make a big truck a lot more than I'd trust Tesla.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  The thing with Tesla's semi truck is the extreme range. Easy to swap in some batteries and make a electric truck. Electric motors and batteries have plenty of power (and gearing can turn that into whatever torque you'd like). It's range, without undue payload reduction. That was always the challenging part. Still is. Freightliner is nowhere near the 450-500 mile range you'd need. They're half that.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    The extreme range doesn't eventuate unless you're hauling air (aka potato chips).
- ChuckMcM 3y ago
  230 max miles though, and 90 minute recharge. With range margin that is 2 ninety minute stops for a 500 mile day. But I would certainly agree that 230 mile range, reliably day in and day out would be better than 500 mile range "sometimes" And low reliability. Because trucks are less size constrained I was hoping flow batteries would have a play here but alas, no progress on that in the last 5 years.
01100011 3y ago
I don't think your average Rivian or E150 customer is in the same group as someone interested in buying a Cybertruck. Some people want practical trucks. Some people want Cybertrucks(for various reasons). I'm not saying the Cybertruck will do well, but if it doesn't, I doubt you can blame Rivians and E150s.
- ChuckMcM 3y ago
  I wonder sometimes if folks think they are buying a Delorean lottery ticket.
jonathankoren 3y ago
> I really wish Elon would pick cars or rockets and focus, He doesn't actually do much with Space X. That's why it's successful. Meanwhile, he's very micromanaging of Tesla and X... and it shows.
_ea1k 3y ago
I think Ford only sold ~3,700 Lightnings in October. I bet Tesla is selling CT at a much faster rate than that by February. Of course, that ultimately depends on price and what trims are available.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  I won't be surprised if Tesla has not produced 3700 CTs by the end of 2024. Ignoring the question of how many real buyers exist, pricing, etc, producing them is a problem. Elon himself recently said mass production was farther off, as I recall, like 2025. Those nice big flat body panels don't make the truck easier to produce, but quite the opposite.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    It seems like they are already producing >12/week. It won't take a lot of production expansion to hit a number like that. At the very least, they'll pass the Hummer EV.
- ChuckMcM 3y ago
  16K total so far, according to this (https://insideevs.com/news/694422/ford-f150-lightning-us-sales-october2023/ https://insideevs.com/news/694422/ford-f150-lightning-us-sal...) It will be interesting to see the run rate for the CT, if it is quite low it will make news.
rsynnott 3y ago
Buses are much, much lighter than loaded semi trucks. Here's a large electric one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400EV - it's only 11 tonnes. They also generally travel at low speeds, start and stop a lot (thus regenerative braking is very effective), and they don't require anything like the same range (the one I linked has a range of 260km, which is perfectly fine for a normal city bus duty cycle). They're a significantly easier problem. That said, electric trucks are absolutely a thing; they're just made by BYD (and to some extent Volvo), not Tesla.

schneems 3y ago

The first time I saw a cyber truck on the road in Austin I literally laughed out loud. It was that startling. I’m sure that will fade, but it’s a very comical first impression.

metadat 3y ago
Yes, 100% with you. The cybertruck is the ugliest, most offensive looking car I've ever seen. I also LOL'd. My previous comment at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37935293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37935293
- avar 3y ago
  If you're buying a truck as a fashion accessory you'll care about the look, for anyone else being able to weld or bolt stuff to a sturdy stainless steel frame is a feature.
- mrDmrTmrJ 3y ago
  I saw one driving down El Camino (Palo Alto CA) and thought it looked great. Respectfully, what generation are you? (Approximately how old are you?) I ask as there are really big difference in how it appeals to different demographics. And all the guys who saw the vehicle with me thought it looked really good. (Admittedly we're former engineering students, so your milage may very...)
  - schneems 3y ago
    I have a mechanical engineering degree, but IDK why that’s relevant. I demographically live in a state with a LOT of trucks and it sticks out, not in a good way. I say this as someone who loves weird car designs. I’m on /r/weirdwheels and I genuinely think the BMW i3 looks fun. I’m okay with funny looking cars that are self aware (like a Prius with a “cool Prius said no one” sticker). But the cyber truck isn’t that, it’s taking itself too seriously it’s trying too hard. Which makes the dissonance funny. I respect your opinion is different, I’m asking you to respect my lived experience too. I guess I’m just not their target audience.

rootusrootus 3y ago

Tesla just makes the biggest headlines. Freightliner had an electric class 8 truck in production before the Tesla. And they're not the only other company doing it. I trust Freightliner to make a big truck a lot more than I'd trust Tesla.

Robotbeat 3y ago
The thing with Tesla's semi truck is the extreme range. Easy to swap in some batteries and make a electric truck. Electric motors and batteries have plenty of power (and gearing can turn that into whatever torque you'd like). It's range, without undue payload reduction. That was always the challenging part. Still is. Freightliner is nowhere near the 450-500 mile range you'd need. They're half that.
- jojobas 3y ago
  The extreme range doesn't eventuate unless you're hauling air (aka potato chips).
ChuckMcM 3y ago
230 max miles though, and 90 minute recharge. With range margin that is 2 ninety minute stops for a 500 mile day. But I would certainly agree that 230 mile range, reliably day in and day out would be better than 500 mile range "sometimes" And low reliability. Because trucks are less size constrained I was hoping flow batteries would have a play here but alas, no progress on that in the last 5 years.

01100011 3y ago

I don't think your average Rivian or E150 customer is in the same group as someone interested in buying a Cybertruck. Some people want practical trucks. Some people want Cybertrucks(for various reasons). I'm not saying the Cybertruck will do well, but if it doesn't, I doubt you can blame Rivians and E150s.

ChuckMcM 3y ago
I wonder sometimes if folks think they are buying a Delorean lottery ticket.

jonathankoren 3y ago

> I really wish Elon would pick cars or rockets and focus, He doesn't actually do much with Space X. That's why it's successful. Meanwhile, he's very micromanaging of Tesla and X... and it shows.

_ea1k 3y ago

I think Ford only sold ~3,700 Lightnings in October. I bet Tesla is selling CT at a much faster rate than that by February. Of course, that ultimately depends on price and what trims are available.

rootusrootus 3y ago
I won't be surprised if Tesla has not produced 3700 CTs by the end of 2024. Ignoring the question of how many real buyers exist, pricing, etc, producing them is a problem. Elon himself recently said mass production was farther off, as I recall, like 2025. Those nice big flat body panels don't make the truck easier to produce, but quite the opposite.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  It seems like they are already producing >12/week. It won't take a lot of production expansion to hit a number like that. At the very least, they'll pass the Hummer EV.
ChuckMcM 3y ago
16K total so far, according to this (https://insideevs.com/news/694422/ford-f150-lightning-us-sales-october2023/ https://insideevs.com/news/694422/ford-f150-lightning-us-sal...) It will be interesting to see the run rate for the CT, if it is quite low it will make news.

rsynnott 3y ago

Buses are much, much lighter than loaded semi trucks. Here's a large electric one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro400EV - it's only 11 tonnes. They also generally travel at low speeds, start and stop a lot (thus regenerative braking is very effective), and they don't require anything like the same range (the one I linked has a range of 260km, which is perfectly fine for a normal city bus duty cycle). They're a significantly easier problem. That said, electric trucks are absolutely a thing; they're just made by BYD (and to some extent Volvo), not Tesla.