4 ms·

> I’ve been tapping my foot ferociously since I was a kid and the most I’ve been “on” is caffeine. Lots of it, though So you're kind of proving the parent post

> I’ve been tapping my foot ferociously since I was a kid and the most I’ve been “on” is caffeine. Lots of it, though So you're kind of proving the parent poster's point, no? Or are you suggesting caffeine is not stimulant or a psychoactive drug?

tambourine_man 3y ago
Not a strong one and I do it when “sober” too. Also when sleepy.
- someplaceguy 3y ago
  It's strong enough to measurably increase your metabolic rest rate and consequent calorie consumption even without obsessive foot tapping. Also, the foot tapping behavior can be related to caffeine consumption even if you also do it when not taking caffeine. Some people (like me) metabolize caffeine a lot slower than average, so its effects last a lot longer (twice longer or so, I think). Also, caffeine notably causes sleep disruption. And caffeine withdrawal can also cause irritability. Caffeine can also increase anxiety or anxiety-related behaviors, and even if anxiety or these behaviors are not exclusively experienced while taking caffeine, it can still increase the likelihood and magnitude of its effects. These behaviors can also persist in the absence of substance intake for a variety of (psychological) reasons.
  - tambourine_man 3y ago
    It is psychoactive, but not remotely as strong as amphetamine. I don’t think that’s controversial.
    - someplaceguy 3y ago
      Well, then let me challenge your "not remotely as strong" claim. A typical cup of coffee contains about the same proportion of caffeine compared to a lethal caffeine dose than the proportion of one Aderall dosage compared to a lethal amphetamine dose. How about that?
      - tambourine_man 3y ago
        I thought we were discussing psychoactive effects, not lethality.
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        Isn't lethality the strongest psychoactive effect? It's a decent measure for how much a certain amount of a drug is likely to cause immediate important effects in the body.
        tambourine_man 3y ago
        It’s not. There’s no known lethal dose for LSD, for instance. And it takes only a few grams to have incredibly potent psychoactive effect
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        The estimated average lethal dose for LSD in humans is only 100 mg, based on rodent studies. Far less than caffeine and even amphetamines. LSD does cause significant psychoactive effects with one thousandth of that amount, which suggests that for a typical isolated dose, LSD is safer than caffeine and amphetamines. Not to mention that LSD is not as addictive. But I don't think that invalidates my underlying point regarding caffeine, even if the lethal dose is not a perfect measure.
        tambourine_man 3y ago
        There’s no correlation between lethality and psychoactive strength and you’re trying to make a point based on it.
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        > There’s no correlation between lethality and psychoactive strength and you’re trying to make a point based on it. Of course there is, and it's obviously a positive correlation. I think you just proved you don't understand what a correlation is...

tambourine_man 3y ago

Not a strong one and I do it when “sober” too. Also when sleepy.

someplaceguy 3y ago
It's strong enough to measurably increase your metabolic rest rate and consequent calorie consumption even without obsessive foot tapping. Also, the foot tapping behavior can be related to caffeine consumption even if you also do it when not taking caffeine. Some people (like me) metabolize caffeine a lot slower than average, so its effects last a lot longer (twice longer or so, I think). Also, caffeine notably causes sleep disruption. And caffeine withdrawal can also cause irritability. Caffeine can also increase anxiety or anxiety-related behaviors, and even if anxiety or these behaviors are not exclusively experienced while taking caffeine, it can still increase the likelihood and magnitude of its effects. These behaviors can also persist in the absence of substance intake for a variety of (psychological) reasons.
- tambourine_man 3y ago
  It is psychoactive, but not remotely as strong as amphetamine. I don’t think that’s controversial.
  - someplaceguy 3y ago
    Well, then let me challenge your "not remotely as strong" claim. A typical cup of coffee contains about the same proportion of caffeine compared to a lethal caffeine dose than the proportion of one Aderall dosage compared to a lethal amphetamine dose. How about that?
    - tambourine_man 3y ago
      I thought we were discussing psychoactive effects, not lethality.
      - someplaceguy 3y ago
        Isn't lethality the strongest psychoactive effect? It's a decent measure for how much a certain amount of a drug is likely to cause immediate important effects in the body.
        tambourine_man 3y ago
        It’s not. There’s no known lethal dose for LSD, for instance. And it takes only a few grams to have incredibly potent psychoactive effect
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        The estimated average lethal dose for LSD in humans is only 100 mg, based on rodent studies. Far less than caffeine and even amphetamines. LSD does cause significant psychoactive effects with one thousandth of that amount, which suggests that for a typical isolated dose, LSD is safer than caffeine and amphetamines. Not to mention that LSD is not as addictive. But I don't think that invalidates my underlying point regarding caffeine, even if the lethal dose is not a perfect measure.
        tambourine_man 3y ago
        There’s no correlation between lethality and psychoactive strength and you’re trying to make a point based on it.
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        > There’s no correlation between lethality and psychoactive strength and you’re trying to make a point based on it. Of course there is, and it's obviously a positive correlation. I think you just proved you don't understand what a correlation is...