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Your statement seems like a total non sequitur. How does making sure purchasers are adequately licenced have anything to do with deregulating the dealership mod

Your statement seems like a total non sequitur. How does making sure purchasers are adequately licenced have anything to do with deregulating the dealership model?

renewiltord 3y ago
Regulations are written in blood. Remember Chesterton's fence. If you cannot articulate the reason for why dealerships exist, you are not equipped to argue for their deregulation. The current model increases safety. People have bought dangerous devices on Amazon before. And people have used these dangerous devices irresponsibly. We shouldn't encourage their proliferation.
- SteveNuts 3y ago
  So if Amazon implements a driver's license verification step, would it be equally "safe" as a dealership purchase?
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    The subtle evaluations of a dealership salesman cannot be emulated by an automated system. Humans are superior to machines for evaluating other humans. Beware unintended consequences of deregulating. Society needs more regulation (written in blood), not less, especially in these trying times where corporations, with their outsize power, are trying to get direct access to consumers to exploit them. Systems like dealerships are load-bearing in society, designed to reduce the pressure of direct impact of large corporations against individuals.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - seattle_spring 3y ago
      Claiming that dealerships exist to protect the consumer is akin to claiming Payday Loan processors exist to protect customers from big banks.
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      > Humans are superior to machines for evaluating other humans. You mean humans will do a racism/sexism/classism when deciding whether or not to sell to someone or rip them off.
      - renewiltord 3y ago
        As recent studies have shown, automatic systems only encode our biases. Amazon has an extensive behavioral advertising and targeting business. Is it safe to let then extend this to something like this?
        Kirby64 3y ago
        If your concern is that sales to unlicensed individuals would occur, it’s extremely easy to implement drivers license validation. How would that possibly encode biases during time of sale? They’re not going to change the price later just because you upload your license or whatever; if they did it would be transparent.
- kube-system 3y ago
  There is no Chesterton's fence here, the history and current regulatory environment surrounding auto dealing is well known. Dealerships exist in general because early 20th century people liked buying from specialized stores instead of department stores or mail ordering them. Dealerships exist today because of regulatory capture. Dealerships in the US do not play any role in determining the ability of the purchaser to operate the vehicle. It is legal and possible to purchase a vehicle without a drivers license in all 50 US states.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- flictonic 3y ago
  > The current model increases safety. How? Are Tesla's more dangerous as a result of direct sales? Do you have data to show this?
- function_seven 3y ago
  The dealership model and the States' protection of their business model has nothing to do with safety. These laws were intended to protect the business models of the franchise dealers from the rapidly-consolidating manufacturers. Dealers saw the consolidation happening, were scared that the automakers would strong-arm them, and lobbied their states to enact these protection laws. "Written in blood". No.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  I know exactly why dealerships exist, and I'd bet most here do as well. The argument is that the reasons they exist are outdated, and only continue because of lobbying. > The current model increases safety How, specifically? Would a Tesla be more safe if it were bought from a middleman dealership as opposed to directly from the manufacturer? Would Toyotas be less safe when purchased directly from Toyota? Similarly, is there any evidence that a used car purchased from an independent seller is statistically less safe than one purchased from a dealership? > If you cannot articulate the reason for why dealerships exist, you are not equipped to argue for their deregulation. How about you focus on the argument, rather than an ad hominem? Or is that your only argument?

Your statement seems like a total non sequitur. How does making sure purchasers are adequately licenced have anything to do with deregulating the dealership model?

renewiltord 3y ago

Regulations are written in blood. Remember Chesterton's fence. If you cannot articulate the reason for why dealerships exist, you are not equipped to argue for their deregulation. The current model increases safety. People have bought dangerous devices on Amazon before. And people have used these dangerous devices irresponsibly. We shouldn't encourage their proliferation.

SteveNuts 3y ago
So if Amazon implements a driver's license verification step, would it be equally "safe" as a dealership purchase?
- renewiltord 3y ago
  The subtle evaluations of a dealership salesman cannot be emulated by an automated system. Humans are superior to machines for evaluating other humans. Beware unintended consequences of deregulating. Society needs more regulation (written in blood), not less, especially in these trying times where corporations, with their outsize power, are trying to get direct access to consumers to exploit them. Systems like dealerships are load-bearing in society, designed to reduce the pressure of direct impact of large corporations against individuals.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    Claiming that dealerships exist to protect the consumer is akin to claiming Payday Loan processors exist to protect customers from big banks.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    > Humans are superior to machines for evaluating other humans. You mean humans will do a racism/sexism/classism when deciding whether or not to sell to someone or rip them off.
    - renewiltord 3y ago
      As recent studies have shown, automatic systems only encode our biases. Amazon has an extensive behavioral advertising and targeting business. Is it safe to let then extend this to something like this?
      - Kirby64 3y ago
        If your concern is that sales to unlicensed individuals would occur, it’s extremely easy to implement drivers license validation. How would that possibly encode biases during time of sale? They’re not going to change the price later just because you upload your license or whatever; if they did it would be transparent.
kube-system 3y ago
There is no Chesterton's fence here, the history and current regulatory environment surrounding auto dealing is well known. Dealerships exist in general because early 20th century people liked buying from specialized stores instead of department stores or mail ordering them. Dealerships exist today because of regulatory capture. Dealerships in the US do not play any role in determining the ability of the purchaser to operate the vehicle. It is legal and possible to purchase a vehicle without a drivers license in all 50 US states.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
flictonic 3y ago
> The current model increases safety. How? Are Tesla's more dangerous as a result of direct sales? Do you have data to show this?
function_seven 3y ago
The dealership model and the States' protection of their business model has nothing to do with safety. These laws were intended to protect the business models of the franchise dealers from the rapidly-consolidating manufacturers. Dealers saw the consolidation happening, were scared that the automakers would strong-arm them, and lobbied their states to enact these protection laws. "Written in blood". No.
seattle_spring 3y ago
I know exactly why dealerships exist, and I'd bet most here do as well. The argument is that the reasons they exist are outdated, and only continue because of lobbying. > The current model increases safety How, specifically? Would a Tesla be more safe if it were bought from a middleman dealership as opposed to directly from the manufacturer? Would Toyotas be less safe when purchased directly from Toyota? Similarly, is there any evidence that a used car purchased from an independent seller is statistically less safe than one purchased from a dealership? > If you cannot articulate the reason for why dealerships exist, you are not equipped to argue for their deregulation. How about you focus on the argument, rather than an ad hominem? Or is that your only argument?