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So much this. I'd much rather pay a shipping fee from the factory to my address than a dealer handling fee. I honestly wish I could just order a Tacoma straigh

So much this. I'd much rather pay a shipping fee from the factory to my address than a dealer handling fee. I honestly wish I could just order a Tacoma straight from Toyota, pay for it to be shipped to me, and avoid the dealership rigamarole altogether. I'm okay waiting my turn in line from the factory. I don't want to deal with artificial dealership "market adjustments." I don't understand why we haven't deregulated the car sales industry to allow (and even require?) manufacturers to directly sell to consumers, circumventing dealerships entirely. It would upend that industry and force them to prove they actually are a value-add service.

theGnuMe 3y ago
There was a program where you could fly to Germany and buy a BMW there, drive it for a few days and ship it home. Ended up being cheaper than buying it at a local dealership. Not sure if it is still available. Dealerships are local jobs programs in some sense and they got State laws enacted to secure their positions. Tesla went up against them and won I guess. My guess is the Amazon program will be similar to the Costco program.
- frantathefranta 3y ago
  It's definitely still available for Porsche[0] [0]https://www.porsche.com/usa/motorsportandevents/deliveryprograms/europeandelivery/ https://www.porsche.com/usa/motorsportandevents/deliveryprog...
- jccooper 3y ago
  European Delivery Program. https://www.internationalbmw.com/european-delivery-program2.htm https://www.internationalbmw.com/european-delivery-program2....
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    hmm, any idea if they do this with motorcycles?
- lastofthemojito 3y ago
  Volvo does it too (for Europe-made models, not China-made models): https://www.volvocars.com/us/l/osd-tourist/ https://www.volvocars.com/us/l/osd-tourist/
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  They haven't won in every state, I don't think. Not only do dealerships provide local jobs but generally their owners tend to be well to do and donate prolifically to local elections, where dollars are normally otherwise scarce because of their lower participation rates.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > Not only do dealerships provide local jobs Which is a terrible reason to keep predatory businesses around. > but generally their owners tend to be well to do You can always make a lot of money when you're ripping off the public > and donate prolifically to local elections "Bribes local politicians". Car dealerships seem like some kind of mob racket. They are a third party that managed to insert themselves in the middle of transactions that shouldn't involve them, they extract a ton of money from the public while providing no value, and then bribe lawmakers to make sure they can keep the rigged game going. The sooner we can get rid of them the better.
- CobaltFire 3y ago
  Volvo and Porsche are the only makers left with these programs. Audi, Mercedes, and BMW have them on permanent hold last I looked (since the pandemic). Lost them a sale from me, as that was a big point in their favor. Without it I ended up somewhere else.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
belltaco 3y ago
[flagged]
- nickff 3y ago
  The piece linked to in your second article is more on point than either of your direct citations: https://www.mercatus.org/research/policy-briefs/state-franchise-law-carjacks-auto-buyers https://www.mercatus.org/research/policy-briefs/state-franch...
renewiltord 3y ago
Many motor vehicles are large dangerous multi-ton vehicles using a dangerously volatile fuel source. There's a reason we require extensive licensing. We need to ensure that only appropriately trained users are sold these dangerous devices. At about 43000 fatalities per year, they are one of the top causes of deaths in the US. You can't just let everyone operate machinery like that. This is setting aside the scope for direct to consumer sales exploiting uninformed customers. Remember: safety regulations are written in blood.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  Your statement seems like a total non sequitur. How does making sure purchasers are adequately licenced have anything to do with deregulating the dealership model?
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    Regulations are written in blood. Remember Chesterton's fence. If you cannot articulate the reason for why dealerships exist, you are not equipped to argue for their deregulation. The current model increases safety. People have bought dangerous devices on Amazon before. And people have used these dangerous devices irresponsibly. We shouldn't encourage their proliferation.
    - SteveNuts 3y ago
      So if Amazon implements a driver's license verification step, would it be equally "safe" as a dealership purchase?
      - renewiltord 3y ago
        The subtle evaluations of a dealership salesman cannot be emulated by an automated system. Humans are superior to machines for evaluating other humans. Beware unintended consequences of deregulating. Society needs more regulation (written in blood), not less, especially in these trying times where corporations, with their outsize power, are trying to get direct access to consumers to exploit them. Systems like dealerships are load-bearing in society, designed to reduce the pressure of direct impact of large corporations against individuals.

theGnuMe 3y ago

There was a program where you could fly to Germany and buy a BMW there, drive it for a few days and ship it home. Ended up being cheaper than buying it at a local dealership. Not sure if it is still available. Dealerships are local jobs programs in some sense and they got State laws enacted to secure their positions. Tesla went up against them and won I guess. My guess is the Amazon program will be similar to the Costco program.

frantathefranta 3y ago
It's definitely still available for Porsche[0] [0]https://www.porsche.com/usa/motorsportandevents/deliveryprograms/europeandelivery/ https://www.porsche.com/usa/motorsportandevents/deliveryprog...
jccooper 3y ago
European Delivery Program. https://www.internationalbmw.com/european-delivery-program2.htm https://www.internationalbmw.com/european-delivery-program2....
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  hmm, any idea if they do this with motorcycles?
lastofthemojito 3y ago
Volvo does it too (for Europe-made models, not China-made models): https://www.volvocars.com/us/l/osd-tourist/ https://www.volvocars.com/us/l/osd-tourist/
bobthepanda 3y ago
They haven't won in every state, I don't think. Not only do dealerships provide local jobs but generally their owners tend to be well to do and donate prolifically to local elections, where dollars are normally otherwise scarce because of their lower participation rates.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > Not only do dealerships provide local jobs Which is a terrible reason to keep predatory businesses around. > but generally their owners tend to be well to do You can always make a lot of money when you're ripping off the public > and donate prolifically to local elections "Bribes local politicians". Car dealerships seem like some kind of mob racket. They are a third party that managed to insert themselves in the middle of transactions that shouldn't involve them, they extract a ton of money from the public while providing no value, and then bribe lawmakers to make sure they can keep the rigged game going. The sooner we can get rid of them the better.
CobaltFire 3y ago
Volvo and Porsche are the only makers left with these programs. Audi, Mercedes, and BMW have them on permanent hold last I looked (since the pandemic). Lost them a sale from me, as that was a big point in their favor. Without it I ended up somewhere else.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

belltaco 3y ago

[flagged]

nickff 3y ago
The piece linked to in your second article is more on point than either of your direct citations: https://www.mercatus.org/research/policy-briefs/state-franchise-law-carjacks-auto-buyers https://www.mercatus.org/research/policy-briefs/state-franch...

renewiltord 3y ago

Many motor vehicles are large dangerous multi-ton vehicles using a dangerously volatile fuel source. There's a reason we require extensive licensing. We need to ensure that only appropriately trained users are sold these dangerous devices. At about 43000 fatalities per year, they are one of the top causes of deaths in the US. You can't just let everyone operate machinery like that. This is setting aside the scope for direct to consumer sales exploiting uninformed customers. Remember: safety regulations are written in blood.

seattle_spring 3y ago
Your statement seems like a total non sequitur. How does making sure purchasers are adequately licenced have anything to do with deregulating the dealership model?
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Regulations are written in blood. Remember Chesterton's fence. If you cannot articulate the reason for why dealerships exist, you are not equipped to argue for their deregulation. The current model increases safety. People have bought dangerous devices on Amazon before. And people have used these dangerous devices irresponsibly. We shouldn't encourage their proliferation.
  - SteveNuts 3y ago
    So if Amazon implements a driver's license verification step, would it be equally "safe" as a dealership purchase?
    - renewiltord 3y ago
      The subtle evaluations of a dealership salesman cannot be emulated by an automated system. Humans are superior to machines for evaluating other humans. Beware unintended consequences of deregulating. Society needs more regulation (written in blood), not less, especially in these trying times where corporations, with their outsize power, are trying to get direct access to consumers to exploit them. Systems like dealerships are load-bearing in society, designed to reduce the pressure of direct impact of large corporations against individuals.