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No. Use Firefox and you will survive. uBlock Origin works best in Firefox: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox https://g

No. Use Firefox and you will survive. uBlock Origin works best in Firefox: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-b...

anonymousab 3y ago
The nuclear option will eventually be to just ban Google accounts for using any ad blocking. The question is whether that atmosphere would simply cause people to quit Google services vs. turn off Adblock altogether to continue using them. I would wager that the latter would be far more likely and common for the average person.
- mcronce 3y ago
  I agree with your intuition on the latter being more likely. And Google won't care about the minority of power users they lose. They've been outwardly hostile toward power users with Android for years.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    Apple is even worse...
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      True, but getting an iPhone to tinker with is kind of like buying a book to rearrange the words into your own story. They crafted a beautiful walled garden for you, and the walls are a feature - which is definitely not for everyone. That said, I have fond memories of installing Linux on my iPod Mini so I understand the joy of making devices do things they were never intended to do.
- xur17 3y ago
  > The nuclear option will eventually be to just ban Google accounts for using any ad blocking. Or they just keep making it harder and harder to use alternative browsers that support ad blocking.
- Tommstein 3y ago
  > The nuclear option will eventually be to just ban Google accounts for using any ad blocking. The collateral damage from that would probably lead to the mother and father of all class-action lawsuits, literal Acts of Congress, and EU fines that Google would have to get a second job in order to pay if they don't try to break them up outright.
- maxloh 3y ago
  IMO both will happen. People are going to continue using other Google services, but quit YouTube.
- dun44 3y ago
  That’s one reason why we need a YouTube archive that’s outside of Google’s control.
Analemma_ 3y ago
Firefox only survives because Google props it up. I don’t think Google can stop completely without incurring antitrust wrath, but they could probably start attaching strings and conditions to the funding.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  So you're saying the more users Firefox has, the stronger Mozilla's bargaining position. You make a good case to use Firefox.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Alternatively, the more users Firefox has, the more incentive Google has to twist Mozilla's arm. I doubt that ultimately defeats forks that are maintained by volunteers (https://librewolf.net/ https://librewolf.net/), and I don't want to discourage Firefox adoption, but it's not quite so cut-and-dry as "use Firefox". There will likely come a time that it's "use this community fork of old-Firefox-before-it-got-Googled". Still not a case against Firefox; just pointing out there's more to the picture.
    - leotravis10 3y ago
      In other words, if Firefox becomes popular enough, there's a chance that Google will deliver a nail to Mozilla's coffin in pulling their search deal and other funding which is the backbone of their business in a financial level. Another example is that Mozilla has a LOT to lose if the DOJ wins in the US v. Google antitrust trial just for those deals.
    - toyg 3y ago
      In the past, when FF was stronger, they took search deals with other engines (yahoo, bing). If their numbers go back up, it could be a viable strategy again. Maybe I'm old, but doing the right thing on the internet has always been harder than just going with the flow. Using Linux in 2000 was very hard, using Firefox in 2001 was no walk in the park - but one gotta do what one gotta do, if one has some principles.
saurik 3y ago
> If it's not Manifest V3 that makes the Internet safe for advertising, it'll be a "browser integrity" token or some other kind of DRM-by-another-name. So, no: Firefox will NOT save you.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  Not on its own it won't. It needs more people using it. It needs to support extensions like uBlock Origin, which it does. Chrome is built to serve Google's interests, which is exactly as you'd expect. Use Firefox for a web which better balances the competing interests of corporations and end users.
  - gary_0 3y ago
    There are already plenty of banking sites and such that will turn you away for not having a standard-issue Chrome user agent header. Also, crank your browser's privacy settings too high, and any website with twitchy Cloudflare settings will give you the sisyphean "I'm not a bot" check box until you give up and go away (or come back with a Chrome that's hungry for cookies). So no, on our present course, Firefox will not save us. And even if every HN reader used it, that wouldn't even come close to pushing its usage share out of the single digits.
    - clouddrover 3y ago
      > There are already plenty of banking sites and such that will turn you away for not having a standard-issue Chrome user agent header. Don't use that bank. > Also, crank your browser's privacy settings too high, and any website with twitchy Cloudflare settings will give you the sisyphean "I'm not a bot" check box Don't use that website. It's certainly true that you have no agency or self respect if you embrace a defeatist and submissive outlook. So don't do that.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      >There are already plenty of banking sites and such that will turn you away for not having a standard-issue Chrome user agent header There are countless banks out there. I have bank accounts with several different institutions in two different countries and they all work fine with Firefox + uBO. If yours doesn't, why are you supporting them? >Also, crank your browser's privacy settings too high, and any website with twitchy Cloudflare settings will give you the sisyphean "I'm not a bot" check box until you give up and go away (or come back with a Chrome that's hungry for cookies). I haven't seen this. If a website is too much of a PITA to use, I just won't use it, and I suggest you do the same.
narinxas 3y ago
firefox and being able to compile it on you machine may do the trick for a little while but policy decisions aren't like technical ones.... principles are at play at every layer above the strictly-technical discussion
- clouddrover 3y ago
  Right. So make the principled choice and use Firefox now.
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
But today Firefox, i.e., Mozilla, is wholly dependent, financially, on Google. One could argue that Google can "kill" Mozilla easier than it can "kill" uBlock.

anonymousab 3y ago

The nuclear option will eventually be to just ban Google accounts for using any ad blocking. The question is whether that atmosphere would simply cause people to quit Google services vs. turn off Adblock altogether to continue using them. I would wager that the latter would be far more likely and common for the average person.

mcronce 3y ago
I agree with your intuition on the latter being more likely. And Google won't care about the minority of power users they lose. They've been outwardly hostile toward power users with Android for years.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  Apple is even worse...
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    True, but getting an iPhone to tinker with is kind of like buying a book to rearrange the words into your own story. They crafted a beautiful walled garden for you, and the walls are a feature - which is definitely not for everyone. That said, I have fond memories of installing Linux on my iPod Mini so I understand the joy of making devices do things they were never intended to do.
xur17 3y ago
> The nuclear option will eventually be to just ban Google accounts for using any ad blocking. Or they just keep making it harder and harder to use alternative browsers that support ad blocking.
Tommstein 3y ago
> The nuclear option will eventually be to just ban Google accounts for using any ad blocking. The collateral damage from that would probably lead to the mother and father of all class-action lawsuits, literal Acts of Congress, and EU fines that Google would have to get a second job in order to pay if they don't try to break them up outright.
maxloh 3y ago
IMO both will happen. People are going to continue using other Google services, but quit YouTube.
dun44 3y ago
That’s one reason why we need a YouTube archive that’s outside of Google’s control.

Analemma_ 3y ago

Firefox only survives because Google props it up. I don’t think Google can stop completely without incurring antitrust wrath, but they could probably start attaching strings and conditions to the funding.

clouddrover 3y ago
So you're saying the more users Firefox has, the stronger Mozilla's bargaining position. You make a good case to use Firefox.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  Alternatively, the more users Firefox has, the more incentive Google has to twist Mozilla's arm. I doubt that ultimately defeats forks that are maintained by volunteers (https://librewolf.net/ https://librewolf.net/), and I don't want to discourage Firefox adoption, but it's not quite so cut-and-dry as "use Firefox". There will likely come a time that it's "use this community fork of old-Firefox-before-it-got-Googled". Still not a case against Firefox; just pointing out there's more to the picture.
  - leotravis10 3y ago
    In other words, if Firefox becomes popular enough, there's a chance that Google will deliver a nail to Mozilla's coffin in pulling their search deal and other funding which is the backbone of their business in a financial level. Another example is that Mozilla has a LOT to lose if the DOJ wins in the US v. Google antitrust trial just for those deals.
  - toyg 3y ago
    In the past, when FF was stronger, they took search deals with other engines (yahoo, bing). If their numbers go back up, it could be a viable strategy again. Maybe I'm old, but doing the right thing on the internet has always been harder than just going with the flow. Using Linux in 2000 was very hard, using Firefox in 2001 was no walk in the park - but one gotta do what one gotta do, if one has some principles.

saurik 3y ago

> If it's not Manifest V3 that makes the Internet safe for advertising, it'll be a "browser integrity" token or some other kind of DRM-by-another-name. So, no: Firefox will NOT save you.

clouddrover 3y ago
Not on its own it won't. It needs more people using it. It needs to support extensions like uBlock Origin, which it does. Chrome is built to serve Google's interests, which is exactly as you'd expect. Use Firefox for a web which better balances the competing interests of corporations and end users.
- gary_0 3y ago
  There are already plenty of banking sites and such that will turn you away for not having a standard-issue Chrome user agent header. Also, crank your browser's privacy settings too high, and any website with twitchy Cloudflare settings will give you the sisyphean "I'm not a bot" check box until you give up and go away (or come back with a Chrome that's hungry for cookies). So no, on our present course, Firefox will not save us. And even if every HN reader used it, that wouldn't even come close to pushing its usage share out of the single digits.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    > There are already plenty of banking sites and such that will turn you away for not having a standard-issue Chrome user agent header. Don't use that bank. > Also, crank your browser's privacy settings too high, and any website with twitchy Cloudflare settings will give you the sisyphean "I'm not a bot" check box Don't use that website. It's certainly true that you have no agency or self respect if you embrace a defeatist and submissive outlook. So don't do that.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    >There are already plenty of banking sites and such that will turn you away for not having a standard-issue Chrome user agent header There are countless banks out there. I have bank accounts with several different institutions in two different countries and they all work fine with Firefox + uBO. If yours doesn't, why are you supporting them? >Also, crank your browser's privacy settings too high, and any website with twitchy Cloudflare settings will give you the sisyphean "I'm not a bot" check box until you give up and go away (or come back with a Chrome that's hungry for cookies). I haven't seen this. If a website is too much of a PITA to use, I just won't use it, and I suggest you do the same.

narinxas 3y ago

firefox and being able to compile it on you machine may do the trick for a little while but policy decisions aren't like technical ones.... principles are at play at every layer above the strictly-technical discussion

clouddrover 3y ago
Right. So make the principled choice and use Firefox now.

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

But today Firefox, i.e., Mozilla, is wholly dependent, financially, on Google. One could argue that Google can "kill" Mozilla easier than it can "kill" uBlock.