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You're moving the goal post from "self-sovereignty" to supports federation with an infinite number of servers. Nothing is stopping you from compiling your own S

You're moving the goal post from "self-sovereignty" to supports federation with an infinite number of servers. Nothing is stopping you from compiling your own Signal server and modifying a Signal client to use your server. Given that Signal is free as a service, supporting federation only increases their expenses.

rglullis 3y ago
Without federation, Signal is still working with the advantage of network effects. So an open source server is not enough of a way out. Element can do it for their Matrix servers. Process.one can do it for ejabberd. Prosody as well. Why can't Signal?
- sowbug 3y ago
  Back to your original point: please don't support an organization that doesn't share important values of yours! That is absolutely your choice! You've named several products that share your values. Perhaps those would be a better fit if you were to donate.
- growse 3y ago
  Because centralisation provides ecosystem agility, which they absolutely value as an upside. Find a way of doing post-quantum secure key exchange? Just roll it out to the server and all the clients essentially overnight. They've talked about this, a lot.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    I'm well aware of their justifications. I'm also aware that centralization brings systemic risks, which they don't talk about. The internet would be a lot more efficient and able to evolve if we just had it controlled by one single entity like Google or Microsoft. Do you think is a good idea to do that? The economy would be a lot more efficient and allocation of resources could be a lot more fair if we could put it all in the hands of one single corporation or government. Do you think it's a good idea to do that? Agricultural output would improve significantly if all crops used the exact same genetic strain and if all soil was artificially managed. Do you think it's a good idea to do that? In case you are wondering, "ability to quickly roll out post-quantum key exchange" is waaaaay down the list of my worries compared to "facing a catastrophic Black Swan affecting all of the world's communications".
    - growse 3y ago
      Signal is so far from being a monopoly that runs "all the world's communications" that these comparisons are essentially meaningless. There's plenty of diversity in the messaging space. Decide your values, choose your compromises, pick your platform. Simple.
      - BlueTemplar 3y ago
        Some people avoid platforms out of principle. Look up «protocols, not platforms» if you have never heard of it.

rglullis 3y ago

Without federation, Signal is still working with the advantage of network effects. So an open source server is not enough of a way out. Element can do it for their Matrix servers. Process.one can do it for ejabberd. Prosody as well. Why can't Signal?

sowbug 3y ago
Back to your original point: please don't support an organization that doesn't share important values of yours! That is absolutely your choice! You've named several products that share your values. Perhaps those would be a better fit if you were to donate.
growse 3y ago
Because centralisation provides ecosystem agility, which they absolutely value as an upside. Find a way of doing post-quantum secure key exchange? Just roll it out to the server and all the clients essentially overnight. They've talked about this, a lot.
- rglullis 3y ago
  I'm well aware of their justifications. I'm also aware that centralization brings systemic risks, which they don't talk about. The internet would be a lot more efficient and able to evolve if we just had it controlled by one single entity like Google or Microsoft. Do you think is a good idea to do that? The economy would be a lot more efficient and allocation of resources could be a lot more fair if we could put it all in the hands of one single corporation or government. Do you think it's a good idea to do that? Agricultural output would improve significantly if all crops used the exact same genetic strain and if all soil was artificially managed. Do you think it's a good idea to do that? In case you are wondering, "ability to quickly roll out post-quantum key exchange" is waaaaay down the list of my worries compared to "facing a catastrophic Black Swan affecting all of the world's communications".
  - growse 3y ago
    Signal is so far from being a monopoly that runs "all the world's communications" that these comparisons are essentially meaningless. There's plenty of diversity in the messaging space. Decide your values, choose your compromises, pick your platform. Simple.
    - BlueTemplar 3y ago
      Some people avoid platforms out of principle. Look up «protocols, not platforms» if you have never heard of it.