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> but you only really get to a good setup with a decent query builder library (ORM-haters smashing strings together like an ape is naturally full of issues, an

> but you only really get to a good setup with a decent query builder library (ORM-haters smashing strings together like an ape is naturally full of issues, and ORM-lovers get all the fun of table/object model-mismatch and poor query generation). But then you run into the issue that every database library tries to be database-agnostic, and you lose access to all the fancy features your database provides I've found that smashing strings together works excellently so long as: - You use something like JavaScript's template strings so that interpolated fragments are inline - You have named placeholder support (so that you're not trying to count parameter placements which gets hugely complex for optional parameters). - You mainly use it for SELECTS and have minimal query builder for INSERTs/UPDATEs/UPSERTs And you get full access to all of the database's features.

setr 3y ago
If you’re maintaining a layer between construction and finalization (the query builder), then you’re not really in the string smashing group I was describing. The main thing I was trying to get at there is no one should make the mistake of “ORMs are shit, I can just write SQL strings directly” because that road is plagued with problems (because SQL is not a language that composes well..). And it’s not just named parameters; with a sane query builder you don’t need to totally rewrite things when dealing with subqueries vs top-level, aggregations, etc. As long as you don’t go so far as to introduce the horror of an ORM
- JCharante 3y ago
  > The main thing I was trying to get at there is no one should make the mistake of “ORMs are shit, I can just write SQL strings directly” This has actually been the road I've been heading down on my personal projects. If I were to use this for work I would use something like Kysely so I can have type safety and make sure the application layer is updated to support every migration, but I've taken time to really practice SQL and write queries & migrations manually and avoid ORMs completely. I love writing SQL by hand, however I know that doesn't scale without some automated checking going on.

setr 3y ago

If you’re maintaining a layer between construction and finalization (the query builder), then you’re not really in the string smashing group I was describing. The main thing I was trying to get at there is no one should make the mistake of “ORMs are shit, I can just write SQL strings directly” because that road is plagued with problems (because SQL is not a language that composes well..). And it’s not just named parameters; with a sane query builder you don’t need to totally rewrite things when dealing with subqueries vs top-level, aggregations, etc. As long as you don’t go so far as to introduce the horror of an ORM

JCharante 3y ago
> The main thing I was trying to get at there is no one should make the mistake of “ORMs are shit, I can just write SQL strings directly” This has actually been the road I've been heading down on my personal projects. If I were to use this for work I would use something like Kysely so I can have type safety and make sure the application layer is updated to support every migration, but I've taken time to really practice SQL and write queries & migrations manually and avoid ORMs completely. I love writing SQL by hand, however I know that doesn't scale without some automated checking going on.