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> People are struggling to get by. Overworked, underpaid, lonely. Well, maybe the last one. I get what you are trying to say, but we still live in better cond

by zpeti 3y ago

> People are struggling to get by. Overworked, underpaid, lonely. Well, maybe the last one. I get what you are trying to say, but we still live in better conditions than humanity has for 20,000 years. Like people were literally starving to death, or being beaten to death by their neighbouring tribe. Lonelyness - perhaps. There definitely seems to be less community now, less support, etc. But is that really the issue? Would a tribesman 3000 years ago have given melatonin to their children to get them to shut and sleep? Probably. Would they have taken cocaine before battle? Probably. Would the women have taken contraception if it was available? Probably. (I bring up contraception because people seem to complain about not having children because they don't have enough money - yet people were way poorer and had many children for all of history). Frankly, I think most of these things people are doing now are probably done just because they are available and they make life more comfortable. But life definitely isn't worse in many many ways than it was before. So just because you're overworked and underpaid isn't a satisfactory explanation.

bmitc 3y ago
> I get what you are trying to say, but we still live in better conditions than humanity has for 20,000 years. That is irrelevant. The situations are completely different. The U.S. social support structure for the lower and lower middle class doesn't exist. There are many kids whose only meal is the potentially free but terrible meal at school. Many moms have effectively the same if not worse healthcare as a tribeswoman during pregnancy due to lack of insurance and affordable access to healthcare and reduced social support. Times are very rough for a lot of people out there. Your comment is frankly flippant and removed from reality.
- zpeti 3y ago
  What are you on about? Do you know how many women died in childbirth for the last 20,000 years? They don’t have the same healthcare as tribeswomen during pregnancy, they have multiple times better chances of surviving. You’re delusional. I know life is hard, but it’s just not as hard as anyone has had it before the 1800s. Not having social security is not the hardest humanity has had it. Get real
  - bmitc 3y ago
    If I am a to-be parent working 2 jobs and can barely afford food and shelter and the first time I see a doctor when pregnant is at the emergency room when delivering and the only paternity leave I get is some paltry wage from the state, in what universe does it matter that some women died of childbirth in the past 20,000 years? Like I said, it doesn't. The difference of availability of support between the lower class and even the upper middle class is staggering and probably the widest it ever has been in human history. That's the point. Take a look at child mortality rates. They are much higher for the lower class and are part of the reason why the U.S.' rate is so low compared to other countries. If you're comparing the suffering of the lower and middle classes to any other time in the past 20,000 years, do you not understand how little that makes sense? Of course it's better if you set the bar so low. And again like I said, you really can't compare. The mental and emotional stress that people experience today is of a different nature that hasn't existed before. > Not having social security is not the hardest humanity has had it. Get real No one said that. And both the question and answer are immaterial to the discussion.
    - zpeti 3y ago
      > If you're comparing the suffering of the lower and middle classes to any other time in the past 20,000 years, do you not understand how little that makes sense? My point went completely over your head. That's why it doesn't make sense to you. The only lense you can see the world through is classes and oppression and inequality. There are a few other ways to look at the world.

by zpeti 3y ago

bmitc 3y ago

> I get what you are trying to say, but we still live in better conditions than humanity has for 20,000 years. That is irrelevant. The situations are completely different. The U.S. social support structure for the lower and lower middle class doesn't exist. There are many kids whose only meal is the potentially free but terrible meal at school. Many moms have effectively the same if not worse healthcare as a tribeswoman during pregnancy due to lack of insurance and affordable access to healthcare and reduced social support. Times are very rough for a lot of people out there. Your comment is frankly flippant and removed from reality.

zpeti 3y ago
What are you on about? Do you know how many women died in childbirth for the last 20,000 years? They don’t have the same healthcare as tribeswomen during pregnancy, they have multiple times better chances of surviving. You’re delusional. I know life is hard, but it’s just not as hard as anyone has had it before the 1800s. Not having social security is not the hardest humanity has had it. Get real
- bmitc 3y ago
  If I am a to-be parent working 2 jobs and can barely afford food and shelter and the first time I see a doctor when pregnant is at the emergency room when delivering and the only paternity leave I get is some paltry wage from the state, in what universe does it matter that some women died of childbirth in the past 20,000 years? Like I said, it doesn't. The difference of availability of support between the lower class and even the upper middle class is staggering and probably the widest it ever has been in human history. That's the point. Take a look at child mortality rates. They are much higher for the lower class and are part of the reason why the U.S.' rate is so low compared to other countries. If you're comparing the suffering of the lower and middle classes to any other time in the past 20,000 years, do you not understand how little that makes sense? Of course it's better if you set the bar so low. And again like I said, you really can't compare. The mental and emotional stress that people experience today is of a different nature that hasn't existed before. > Not having social security is not the hardest humanity has had it. Get real No one said that. And both the question and answer are immaterial to the discussion.
  - zpeti 3y ago
    > If you're comparing the suffering of the lower and middle classes to any other time in the past 20,000 years, do you not understand how little that makes sense? My point went completely over your head. That's why it doesn't make sense to you. The only lense you can see the world through is classes and oppression and inequality. There are a few other ways to look at the world.