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Proton Mail CEO calls new address verification feature a blockchain

5 points by p4bl0 3y ago

p4bl0 3y ago
I submitted the link to this news because I feel it is important to discuss this kind of ridiculous ideas if only as an example of what not to do. If users wan write their own key to the blockchain, then you didn't advance a bit, the verification problem is just deported to their blockchain public key (even if it is the same, you only know that, still not that the key belongs to the actual person it pretends to). If it's Proton who writes the keys and acts as a source of trust, then it is a centralized situation and there is no need for a blockchain, a classic key server can do. The immutable aspect of a blockchain could be sort-of interesting here (although security keys need to be changed every so often), but because of what I already said that essentially amounts to a classic case of TOFU (trust on first use) security, that doesn't need a blockchain either.
butz 3y ago
Not sure how long I will be staying on Proton Mail. Sure, it's great that they are innovating somewhere, but currently words "blockchain" and "crypto" usually end up in negative press. Not to mention constant annoying campaigns to upsell "better" plan for already paying customer, and still no Linux client for Proton Drive, I'll probably start looking for an alternative email provider that does only one thing, and does it as best as they can.
- gobip 3y ago
  Very satisfied with fastmail and migadu.
madsbuch 3y ago
Proton mail completely misses basic features like having a working Android app. They indeed need to re-focus and actually make sure what they are building _is working_.
- protonmail 3y ago
  Many of the issues from the previous versions of the Android app have been addressed in the new beta version. We are working on it intensively, and plan to fully release it as soon as it's ready.
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    I am still paying for an email service that is not able to do something as basic as sending an email. I was sending an email to an attorney. Upon reviewing the email in the send emails folder, a previous draft of the email was send, not the newest one - this can incur significant financial risk on me. This is something Proton perfectly well knows their app does (without any mitigations). A message from their customer support: Kindly note that we are aware that the Android app does have this issue. It occurs because the draft message was sent before it could be properly saved. If you wait for a few seconds for the draft to be properly saved, the full message will be sent. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. (And wow it is taking it light, to call it an "inconvenience" when the product you are taking money from incurs financial damage in your customers) The new beta app was announced in 2021. We write 2023 and the app can still not do something as fundamental as sending an email. Despite the cry-me-a-river communication (as in the tech debt section of this email: https://proton.me/blog/engineering-team-2021-update https://proton.me/blog/engineering-team-2021-update) from proton, nothing is happening, and I recommend everybody to stay away from Proton and all its services. I have been on several projects with tech debt over the past years. But never did we leave the customers hanging over several years, kept charging them, and also damaged them and their reputation. (And very mature of the official proton account to down-vote criticism)
    - protonprivacy 3y ago
      We understand the frustration and we're deeply sorry that you've encountered this issue, especially in such a sensitive situation. The issue has been affecting a very small portion of Android users and as soon as we understood it and were able to reproduce it, we fixed it. The latest Mail Android beta has significant improvements, and this is just the beginning. Additionally, the team has worked on 35+ other features enhancements, all guided by community requests. (You can read more about this here: https://proton.me/blog/mail-calendar-improvements-2023 https://proton.me/blog/mail-calendar-improvements-2023 The tech debt you've mentioned is sadly real and we have been working on it continuously since then. We appreciate your support and understanding thus far.

5 points by p4bl0 3y ago

I submitted the link to this news because I feel it is important to discuss this kind of ridiculous ideas if only as an example of what not to do. If users wan write their own key to the blockchain, then you didn't advance a bit, the verification problem is just deported to their blockchain public key (even if it is the same, you only know that, still not that the key belongs to the actual person it pretends to). If it's Proton who writes the keys and acts as a source of trust, then it is a centralized situation and there is no need for a blockchain, a classic key server can do. The immutable aspect of a blockchain could be sort-of interesting here (although security keys need to be changed every so often), but because of what I already said that essentially amounts to a classic case of TOFU (trust on first use) security, that doesn't need a blockchain either.

butz 3y ago

Not sure how long I will be staying on Proton Mail. Sure, it's great that they are innovating somewhere, but currently words "blockchain" and "crypto" usually end up in negative press. Not to mention constant annoying campaigns to upsell "better" plan for already paying customer, and still no Linux client for Proton Drive, I'll probably start looking for an alternative email provider that does only one thing, and does it as best as they can.

gobip 3y ago
Very satisfied with fastmail and migadu.

madsbuch 3y ago

Proton mail completely misses basic features like having a working Android app. They indeed need to re-focus and actually make sure what they are building _is working_.

protonmail 3y ago
Many of the issues from the previous versions of the Android app have been addressed in the new beta version. We are working on it intensively, and plan to fully release it as soon as it's ready.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  I am still paying for an email service that is not able to do something as basic as sending an email. I was sending an email to an attorney. Upon reviewing the email in the send emails folder, a previous draft of the email was send, not the newest one - this can incur significant financial risk on me. This is something Proton perfectly well knows their app does (without any mitigations). A message from their customer support: Kindly note that we are aware that the Android app does have this issue. It occurs because the draft message was sent before it could be properly saved. If you wait for a few seconds for the draft to be properly saved, the full message will be sent. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. (And wow it is taking it light, to call it an "inconvenience" when the product you are taking money from incurs financial damage in your customers) The new beta app was announced in 2021. We write 2023 and the app can still not do something as fundamental as sending an email. Despite the cry-me-a-river communication (as in the tech debt section of this email: https://proton.me/blog/engineering-team-2021-update https://proton.me/blog/engineering-team-2021-update) from proton, nothing is happening, and I recommend everybody to stay away from Proton and all its services. I have been on several projects with tech debt over the past years. But never did we leave the customers hanging over several years, kept charging them, and also damaged them and their reputation. (And very mature of the official proton account to down-vote criticism)
  - protonprivacy 3y ago
    We understand the frustration and we're deeply sorry that you've encountered this issue, especially in such a sensitive situation. The issue has been affecting a very small portion of Android users and as soon as we understood it and were able to reproduce it, we fixed it. The latest Mail Android beta has significant improvements, and this is just the beginning. Additionally, the team has worked on 35+ other features enhancements, all guided by community requests. (You can read more about this here: https://proton.me/blog/mail-calendar-improvements-2023 https://proton.me/blog/mail-calendar-improvements-2023 The tech debt you've mentioned is sadly real and we have been working on it continuously since then. We appreciate your support and understanding thus far.