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Sleep hygiene is absolute shit. Acquaintances think we're weird for not having a TV in the bedroom. My kids friends have TV, game systems, computers, phones, et

by 303uru 3y ago

Sleep hygiene is absolute shit. Acquaintances think we're weird for not having a TV in the bedroom. My kids friends have TV, game systems, computers, phones, etc... all in the bedroom and they're in elementary school. No wonder they need drugs to fall asleed. Parents are slamming Xanax and Ambien kids are chewing melatonin gummies.

avbanks 3y ago
I completely agree, I think sleep hygiene gets overlooked but that could be main culprit. Andrew Hubermin talks about this on his podcast but basically the blue light/high intensity light from phones, computers, and tv's blocks melatonin. The quality of my sleep is much higher when I don't look at any screens 2-3 hours before bed. https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-light https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-lig...
- dvdkon 3y ago
  It's not just screens, common lights produce too much melanopic light for evening use. It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. And the same, in reverse, applies to workspaces/schools with not enough natural light (or a good simulation thereof).
  - hammock 3y ago
    > It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. Can you give some suggestions?
    - dvdkon 3y ago
      I won't suggest specific products (local availability is patchy), so I'm going to be more generic: The main thing is that there are non-visual receptors in our eyes that are used for determining the level of "daylight", and they are most sensitive to light around 480nm [1]. To give the right signals, you want to match daylight's intensity in this part of the spectrum at day, but gradually decrease it to zero in the late evening. You can look for lightbulbs or LED strips that come with a quantified measure of melanopic vs standard lux (it's sadly not common), or you can look for light sources that come with a graph of the emitted spectrum (a requirement for the new EU energy efficiency label!) and make an educated guess. Generally, 1800 K or colder(/"warmer") LEDs will have little of the melanopic component, using "monochromatic" orange LEDs is also an option (both dimmed appropriately). [1] See graph here: https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux/ https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux...
  - avbanks 3y ago
    Yes you're correct, I should have noted that. All light sources can affect melatonin production negatively. Its also vital to get as much light as possible during the day, especially light from the sun or overcast clouds.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  I did candle-only lighting and no screens at all after sundown for a couple weeks as an experiment one time. Candles (ones that don’t smell like a chemical processing plant, anyway) are expensive, inconvenient, and kinda dangerous, and demands of modern life make it hard to keep up, but my life-long “night owl” tendencies were cured in a couple days. Why can’t we sleep? Because we keep an on-demand world-class carnival in our houses, and light them up super-bright at night. If you describe what we do and how we live, the cause of the overwhelming majority of sleep issues in our society is obvious. It’d be very surprising if that way of living didn’t cause widespread sleep issues.
hotnfresh 3y ago
Physical activity at school has been dropping, too, for years—less recess, especially—and it’s hard to fix that at home in the winter when the kids get home at 4:30 and it’s dark at 5. No wonder they have too much energy to sleep.

by 303uru 3y ago

avbanks 3y ago

I completely agree, I think sleep hygiene gets overlooked but that could be main culprit. Andrew Hubermin talks about this on his podcast but basically the blue light/high intensity light from phones, computers, and tv's blocks melatonin. The quality of my sleep is much higher when I don't look at any screens 2-3 hours before bed. https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-light https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-lig...

dvdkon 3y ago
It's not just screens, common lights produce too much melanopic light for evening use. It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. And the same, in reverse, applies to workspaces/schools with not enough natural light (or a good simulation thereof).
- hammock 3y ago
  > It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. Can you give some suggestions?
  - dvdkon 3y ago
    I won't suggest specific products (local availability is patchy), so I'm going to be more generic: The main thing is that there are non-visual receptors in our eyes that are used for determining the level of "daylight", and they are most sensitive to light around 480nm [1]. To give the right signals, you want to match daylight's intensity in this part of the spectrum at day, but gradually decrease it to zero in the late evening. You can look for lightbulbs or LED strips that come with a quantified measure of melanopic vs standard lux (it's sadly not common), or you can look for light sources that come with a graph of the emitted spectrum (a requirement for the new EU energy efficiency label!) and make an educated guess. Generally, 1800 K or colder(/"warmer") LEDs will have little of the melanopic component, using "monochromatic" orange LEDs is also an option (both dimmed appropriately). [1] See graph here: https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux/ https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux...
- avbanks 3y ago
  Yes you're correct, I should have noted that. All light sources can affect melatonin production negatively. Its also vital to get as much light as possible during the day, especially light from the sun or overcast clouds.
hotnfresh 3y ago
I did candle-only lighting and no screens at all after sundown for a couple weeks as an experiment one time. Candles (ones that don’t smell like a chemical processing plant, anyway) are expensive, inconvenient, and kinda dangerous, and demands of modern life make it hard to keep up, but my life-long “night owl” tendencies were cured in a couple days. Why can’t we sleep? Because we keep an on-demand world-class carnival in our houses, and light them up super-bright at night. If you describe what we do and how we live, the cause of the overwhelming majority of sleep issues in our society is obvious. It’d be very surprising if that way of living didn’t cause widespread sleep issues.

hotnfresh 3y ago

Physical activity at school has been dropping, too, for years—less recess, especially—and it’s hard to fix that at home in the winter when the kids get home at 4:30 and it’s dark at 5. No wonder they have too much energy to sleep.