5 ms·

"During 2017–18, only about 1.3% of U.S. parents reported that their children used melatonin. To get a sense of the current prevalence of use, Hartstein and col

"During 2017–18, only about 1.3% of U.S. parents reported that their children used melatonin. To get a sense of the current prevalence of use, Hartstein and colleagues surveyed about 1,000 parents in the first half of 2023. Among children ages 5 to 9, 18.5% had been given melatonin in the previous 30 days. For preteens ages 10 to 13, that number rose to 19.4%. Nearly 6% of preschoolers ages 1 to 4 had used melatonin in the previous month."

0xb0565e486 3y ago
That’s some crazy high numbers for something that has yet to be shown/proven to be effective for its most common use case.
- brigandish 3y ago
  If you've ever taken it, you know it has an effect.
  - hnuser123456 3y ago
    I've taken it and did not notice any significant effect.
  - anderiv 3y ago
    I've experimented with Melatonin extensively. Different doses, different times, brands, etc. It has never caused an effect that I can notice. So - that's not to say it's not doing something, but to assume it has a noticeable effect on everyone is an incorrect assumption.
    - 2devnull 3y ago
      It’s like a hormone, so it’s not a question of empirical effects. It just works.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - cies 3y ago
      > I've experimented I dont want to devalue your experience. But this experimentation is usually not "(placebo) controlled" and not "double blind". You could! Take a randomly selected real-or-placebo, that's marked as such but you do not know at the time. See if you can feel the difference, not your experience, repeat. Then look at your results. According to placebo science the results may shock you.
      - cies 3y ago
        not = note
    - brigandish 3y ago
      I guess there's an exception to every rule! Do you ever feel sleepy at all? I would wonder why someone would use melatonin if they didn't want to sleep, which suggests someone who isn't sleeping well, yet it had no effect. Extensive suggests it wasn't just one dodgy batch of melatonin either. I hope you're sleeping well now regardless. Lack of good sleep is like slow torture.
- echelon 3y ago
  When they make melatonin chewables with cartoons on them and sell them at Target, it's bound to have some level of popularity. Especially when they're placed near the front, on prime shelf space.
- leptons 3y ago
  If you've ever had problems falling asleep and taken melatonin to fall asleep, you would have proven it works to yourself. I took melatonin for a couple of years, and without fail, it made me sleepy where normally I would be awake until all hours of the night. Sure, this is comment is anecdotal, but so many people wouldn't be spending money on it if it didn't do what it is known to do, which is making sleep come easier.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Kye 3y ago
    >> "Sure, this is comment is anecdotal, but so many people wouldn't be spending money on it if it didn't do what it is known to do, which is making sleep come easier." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_and_efficacy_of_homeopathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_and_efficacy_of_homeo... "The proposed mechanisms for homeopathy are precluded from having any effect by the laws of physics and physical chemistry.[18] The extreme dilutions used in homeopathic preparations usually leave not one molecule of the original substance in the final product." It remains a multi-billion dollar industry. Whether melatonin is closer to medicine or nonsense can't be solved with anecdotes.
    - leptons 3y ago
      >Whether melatonin is closer to medicine or nonsense can't be solved with anecdotes. I admitted my comment is an anecdote, but that doesn't cancel out the voluminous research and study done on melatonin. We know that melatonin is a hormone that is involved with regulating sleep cycles. I'm not sure what evidence you're looking for but internet trolls love to move goalposts anywhere they want to. Yes, millions of people use melatonin effectively every single night. You can call that an anecdote, but you've provided no evidence that melatonin does not do what it's being used for. All evidence and study points to one thing: melatonin helps people sleep. Just go google it yourself, don't have a pointless conversation about anecdotes.
      - Kye 3y ago
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  That’s sort of a shocking statement. The primary use case is to feel drowsy and fall asleep. It’s the hormone that induces drowsiness that is readily absorbed by the gut unchanged and impacts systemic levels of said hormone. We not only know it’s effective by like billions of humans trying it trillions of times, we know it’s effective by like nearly every vertebrate animal in biochemical processes we kinda understand sleeping every single day for all of lifes history. What evidence is lacking exactly?
  - glitchc 3y ago
    We used to think cocaine was an excellent cure for depression and not addictive at all. It's naturally occurring, millions of people took it. https://www.narconon.org/drug-information/cocaine-circa-1860-1900.html https://www.narconon.org/drug-information/cocaine-circa-1860... Anecdotal evidence is not a substitute for pharmacology research, controlled medical trials.
    - fnordpiglet 3y ago
      Cocaine isn’t naturally occurring in every vertebrate animal as the hormone responsible for not making you depressed. Plutonium is naturally occurring as well, but it’s not a part of the fundamental biology of all animals. Melatonin is as naturally occurring in animals as blood and its purpose we use it for as a supplement is precisely what it does in the body. It’s nudging the natural levels slightly higher to induce exactly what it does and we desire from it. There’s literally no debate anywhere in any context as to whether it does what it says on the tin, because it literally is the thing that does the thing on the tin. But, you know, sure. Why not. Of course people did these studies because with positive results you’ll get published and it’s a bit of a softball, since it’s like, exactly what must be the result given the situation: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33417003/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33417003/ Results: Of 2642 papers, 23 RCTs met inclusion criteria. Our results indicated that melatonin had significant effect on sleep quality as assessed by the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index (PSQI) (WMD: - 1.24; 95% CI - 1.77, - 0.71, p = 0.000). Conclusion: We found that the treatment with exogenous melatonin has positive effects on sleep quality as assessed by the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index (PSQI) in adult. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982807/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982807/ Conclusions: Melatonin was an effective and tolerable drug in the short-term treatment of sleep onset insomnia in children and adolescents. Etc There’s no controversy whether it works or not. The only controversy is on chronic supplementation, which is entirely fair.
- avbanks 3y ago
  It's a hormone produced by the body for sleep, it definitely works in inducing drowsiness. Now should you take it regularly is a different question.
- cies 3y ago
  Exactly. Unknown risks. Unknown benefits. But let's medicate the kids. I think we should do little placebo trials at home. Not double blind, obviously. But still the risks are known (none, except character damage maybe).
superchroma 3y ago
Those are massive numbers, wow
rob74 3y ago
Better living through chemistry! Forget bedtime stories - melatonin is much more reliable!
303uru 3y ago
Sleep hygiene is absolute shit. Acquaintances think we're weird for not having a TV in the bedroom. My kids friends have TV, game systems, computers, phones, etc... all in the bedroom and they're in elementary school. No wonder they need drugs to fall asleed. Parents are slamming Xanax and Ambien kids are chewing melatonin gummies.
- avbanks 3y ago
  I completely agree, I think sleep hygiene gets overlooked but that could be main culprit. Andrew Hubermin talks about this on his podcast but basically the blue light/high intensity light from phones, computers, and tv's blocks melatonin. The quality of my sleep is much higher when I don't look at any screens 2-3 hours before bed. https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-light https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-lig...
  - dvdkon 3y ago
    It's not just screens, common lights produce too much melanopic light for evening use. It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. And the same, in reverse, applies to workspaces/schools with not enough natural light (or a good simulation thereof).
    - hammock 3y ago
      > It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. Can you give some suggestions?
      - dvdkon 3y ago
        I won't suggest specific products (local availability is patchy), so I'm going to be more generic: The main thing is that there are non-visual receptors in our eyes that are used for determining the level of "daylight", and they are most sensitive to light around 480nm [1]. To give the right signals, you want to match daylight's intensity in this part of the spectrum at day, but gradually decrease it to zero in the late evening. You can look for lightbulbs or LED strips that come with a quantified measure of melanopic vs standard lux (it's sadly not common), or you can look for light sources that come with a graph of the emitted spectrum (a requirement for the new EU energy efficiency label!) and make an educated guess. Generally, 1800 K or colder(/"warmer") LEDs will have little of the melanopic component, using "monochromatic" orange LEDs is also an option (both dimmed appropriately). [1] See graph here: https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux/ https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux...
stinos 3y ago
Reading things like this to me has the same effect as reading that 1/5 (or whetever the current rate is) of people is now obese. But the article doesn't even stop there, the next paragraph: > researchers analyzed 25 melatonin gummy products and found that 22 contained different amounts of melatonin than the label indicated. One had more than three times the amount on the label. One had none at all. In addition, some melatonin supplements have been found to contain other concerning substances, such as serotonin It's almost as if humanity, with US often leading the way, wants to destroy itself. Well, or maybe somewhat more precise: one part of humanity is super selfish and only cares about power/money, and drags a large part of the rest with them.

0xb0565e486 3y ago

That’s some crazy high numbers for something that has yet to be shown/proven to be effective for its most common use case.

brigandish 3y ago
If you've ever taken it, you know it has an effect.
- hnuser123456 3y ago
  I've taken it and did not notice any significant effect.
- anderiv 3y ago
  I've experimented with Melatonin extensively. Different doses, different times, brands, etc. It has never caused an effect that I can notice. So - that's not to say it's not doing something, but to assume it has a noticeable effect on everyone is an incorrect assumption.
  - 2devnull 3y ago
    It’s like a hormone, so it’s not a question of empirical effects. It just works.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - cies 3y ago
    > I've experimented I dont want to devalue your experience. But this experimentation is usually not "(placebo) controlled" and not "double blind". You could! Take a randomly selected real-or-placebo, that's marked as such but you do not know at the time. See if you can feel the difference, not your experience, repeat. Then look at your results. According to placebo science the results may shock you.
    - cies 3y ago
      not = note
  - brigandish 3y ago
    I guess there's an exception to every rule! Do you ever feel sleepy at all? I would wonder why someone would use melatonin if they didn't want to sleep, which suggests someone who isn't sleeping well, yet it had no effect. Extensive suggests it wasn't just one dodgy batch of melatonin either. I hope you're sleeping well now regardless. Lack of good sleep is like slow torture.
echelon 3y ago
When they make melatonin chewables with cartoons on them and sell them at Target, it's bound to have some level of popularity. Especially when they're placed near the front, on prime shelf space.
leptons 3y ago
If you've ever had problems falling asleep and taken melatonin to fall asleep, you would have proven it works to yourself. I took melatonin for a couple of years, and without fail, it made me sleepy where normally I would be awake until all hours of the night. Sure, this is comment is anecdotal, but so many people wouldn't be spending money on it if it didn't do what it is known to do, which is making sleep come easier.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Kye 3y ago
  >> "Sure, this is comment is anecdotal, but so many people wouldn't be spending money on it if it didn't do what it is known to do, which is making sleep come easier." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_and_efficacy_of_homeopathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_and_efficacy_of_homeo... "The proposed mechanisms for homeopathy are precluded from having any effect by the laws of physics and physical chemistry.[18] The extreme dilutions used in homeopathic preparations usually leave not one molecule of the original substance in the final product." It remains a multi-billion dollar industry. Whether melatonin is closer to medicine or nonsense can't be solved with anecdotes.
  - leptons 3y ago
    >Whether melatonin is closer to medicine or nonsense can't be solved with anecdotes. I admitted my comment is an anecdote, but that doesn't cancel out the voluminous research and study done on melatonin. We know that melatonin is a hormone that is involved with regulating sleep cycles. I'm not sure what evidence you're looking for but internet trolls love to move goalposts anywhere they want to. Yes, millions of people use melatonin effectively every single night. You can call that an anecdote, but you've provided no evidence that melatonin does not do what it's being used for. All evidence and study points to one thing: melatonin helps people sleep. Just go google it yourself, don't have a pointless conversation about anecdotes.
    - Kye 3y ago
fnordpiglet 3y ago
That’s sort of a shocking statement. The primary use case is to feel drowsy and fall asleep. It’s the hormone that induces drowsiness that is readily absorbed by the gut unchanged and impacts systemic levels of said hormone. We not only know it’s effective by like billions of humans trying it trillions of times, we know it’s effective by like nearly every vertebrate animal in biochemical processes we kinda understand sleeping every single day for all of lifes history. What evidence is lacking exactly?
- glitchc 3y ago
  We used to think cocaine was an excellent cure for depression and not addictive at all. It's naturally occurring, millions of people took it. https://www.narconon.org/drug-information/cocaine-circa-1860-1900.html https://www.narconon.org/drug-information/cocaine-circa-1860... Anecdotal evidence is not a substitute for pharmacology research, controlled medical trials.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    Cocaine isn’t naturally occurring in every vertebrate animal as the hormone responsible for not making you depressed. Plutonium is naturally occurring as well, but it’s not a part of the fundamental biology of all animals. Melatonin is as naturally occurring in animals as blood and its purpose we use it for as a supplement is precisely what it does in the body. It’s nudging the natural levels slightly higher to induce exactly what it does and we desire from it. There’s literally no debate anywhere in any context as to whether it does what it says on the tin, because it literally is the thing that does the thing on the tin. But, you know, sure. Why not. Of course people did these studies because with positive results you’ll get published and it’s a bit of a softball, since it’s like, exactly what must be the result given the situation: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33417003/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33417003/ Results: Of 2642 papers, 23 RCTs met inclusion criteria. Our results indicated that melatonin had significant effect on sleep quality as assessed by the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index (PSQI) (WMD: - 1.24; 95% CI - 1.77, - 0.71, p = 0.000). Conclusion: We found that the treatment with exogenous melatonin has positive effects on sleep quality as assessed by the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index (PSQI) in adult. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982807/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31982807/ Conclusions: Melatonin was an effective and tolerable drug in the short-term treatment of sleep onset insomnia in children and adolescents. Etc There’s no controversy whether it works or not. The only controversy is on chronic supplementation, which is entirely fair.
avbanks 3y ago
It's a hormone produced by the body for sleep, it definitely works in inducing drowsiness. Now should you take it regularly is a different question.
cies 3y ago
Exactly. Unknown risks. Unknown benefits. But let's medicate the kids. I think we should do little placebo trials at home. Not double blind, obviously. But still the risks are known (none, except character damage maybe).

superchroma 3y ago

Those are massive numbers, wow

rob74 3y ago

Better living through chemistry! Forget bedtime stories - melatonin is much more reliable!

303uru 3y ago

Sleep hygiene is absolute shit. Acquaintances think we're weird for not having a TV in the bedroom. My kids friends have TV, game systems, computers, phones, etc... all in the bedroom and they're in elementary school. No wonder they need drugs to fall asleed. Parents are slamming Xanax and Ambien kids are chewing melatonin gummies.

avbanks 3y ago
I completely agree, I think sleep hygiene gets overlooked but that could be main culprit. Andrew Hubermin talks about this on his podcast but basically the blue light/high intensity light from phones, computers, and tv's blocks melatonin. The quality of my sleep is much higher when I don't look at any screens 2-3 hours before bed. https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc?si=w6_YgZKQq65YyatP https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-light https://www.sleepfoundation.org/bedroom-environment/blue-lig...
- dvdkon 3y ago
  It's not just screens, common lights produce too much melanopic light for evening use. It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. And the same, in reverse, applies to workspaces/schools with not enough natural light (or a good simulation thereof).
  - hammock 3y ago
    > It's definitely not trivial to pick light sources that are safe to use in the evening without interfering with our circadian rhythm, but it's possible. Can you give some suggestions?
    - dvdkon 3y ago
      I won't suggest specific products (local availability is patchy), so I'm going to be more generic: The main thing is that there are non-visual receptors in our eyes that are used for determining the level of "daylight", and they are most sensitive to light around 480nm [1]. To give the right signals, you want to match daylight's intensity in this part of the spectrum at day, but gradually decrease it to zero in the late evening. You can look for lightbulbs or LED strips that come with a quantified measure of melanopic vs standard lux (it's sadly not common), or you can look for light sources that come with a graph of the emitted spectrum (a requirement for the new EU energy efficiency label!) and make an educated guess. Generally, 1800 K or colder(/"warmer") LEDs will have little of the melanopic component, using "monochromatic" orange LEDs is also an option (both dimmed appropriately). [1] See graph here: https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux/ https://www.thelightreviewonline.com/explainer-melanopic-lux...

stinos 3y ago

Reading things like this to me has the same effect as reading that 1/5 (or whetever the current rate is) of people is now obese. But the article doesn't even stop there, the next paragraph: > researchers analyzed 25 melatonin gummy products and found that 22 contained different amounts of melatonin than the label indicated. One had more than three times the amount on the label. One had none at all. In addition, some melatonin supplements have been found to contain other concerning substances, such as serotonin It's almost as if humanity, with US often leading the way, wants to destroy itself. Well, or maybe somewhat more precise: one part of humanity is super selfish and only cares about power/money, and drags a large part of the rest with them.