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But you weren't trustworthy. Just yesterday I had my boss say roughly "don't tell anyone I told you this, but ..." and proceeded to explain what's going on "up

But you weren't trustworthy. Just yesterday I had my boss say roughly "don't tell anyone I told you this, but ..." and proceeded to explain what's going on "upstairs". If you're not willing to take a risk and trust them then you're not trustworthy and whinging on a forum about how unfair people are for not understanding your reasons for lying to them means you didn't learn anything from the exercise. If I ask a question and my boss tells me "I can't talk about that because X, Y, or Z", I'm fine with it. We're all adults here, we all understand there can't be complete transparency. But you lied to them by omission about things that can affect their employment status. They don't trust you because you're not trustworthy.

mikehollinger 3y ago
> But you weren't trustworthy. Yup. I preface a statement about once a week by saying “there’s a difference between ‘I can’t say’ and ‘I don’t know.’ In this case, …” It’s been useful. It helps to communicate without breaking bonds of confidentiality or trust. It also helps people from reading too much into an off the cuff “I dunno” which is literally true. I do not in fact have knowledge of what you’re asking about. Maybe I should or shouldn’t but I can tell you I don’t know.
- iamleppert 3y ago
  This is hollow advice. Your job as an engineering manager is to maintain the integrity of the team and deliver business results. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t preach trust and transparency if your definition is selective. By definition those things require authenticity and completeness. Would you trust or accept as an answer someone who tells you “I can’t say” when asked a very direct question “Is my job safe? Should I start looking for another job?” Especially when you’ve been ordered (and let’s face it, executives give orders, not suggestions when it comes to this stuff). They expect your loyalty is to them and they also have trust in you that will be violated if you don’t follow their “guidance”. So what are your choices as an EM? No good ones, besides the obvious of don’t put yourself in that position if you like to think of yourself as a good person.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    There are always going to be people on the team for whom the manager will never be good enough. This does not mean most reasonable people run around with such a negative view of everything. Which, btw, is what I'm getting from your post. That you're one of those people.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
Sometimes your in an impossible situation. * If you tell the team to keep their trust, you loose management's trust. The good thing is you can't be put in this position if management won't tell you. The bad thing is you won't have a job. * If you don't tell the team, you loose their trust while keeping management's trust. At the end of the day, most managers are limited by corporate context they work in. They can only be as trustworthy as they're allowed to be.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > They can only be as trustworthy as they're allowed to be. This may be true, but it still means they're untrustworthy. We all are responsible for our own actions. Behaving in an untrustworthy fashion says something important about a person even if (or especially if) they're behaving that way to save their own skin.
paulddraper 3y ago
Your choices are 1. Betray management trust. 2. Betray individual trust. 3. Quit.

mikehollinger 3y ago

> But you weren't trustworthy. Yup. I preface a statement about once a week by saying “there’s a difference between ‘I can’t say’ and ‘I don’t know.’ In this case, …” It’s been useful. It helps to communicate without breaking bonds of confidentiality or trust. It also helps people from reading too much into an off the cuff “I dunno” which is literally true. I do not in fact have knowledge of what you’re asking about. Maybe I should or shouldn’t but I can tell you I don’t know.

iamleppert 3y ago
This is hollow advice. Your job as an engineering manager is to maintain the integrity of the team and deliver business results. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t preach trust and transparency if your definition is selective. By definition those things require authenticity and completeness. Would you trust or accept as an answer someone who tells you “I can’t say” when asked a very direct question “Is my job safe? Should I start looking for another job?” Especially when you’ve been ordered (and let’s face it, executives give orders, not suggestions when it comes to this stuff). They expect your loyalty is to them and they also have trust in you that will be violated if you don’t follow their “guidance”. So what are your choices as an EM? No good ones, besides the obvious of don’t put yourself in that position if you like to think of yourself as a good person.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  There are always going to be people on the team for whom the manager will never be good enough. This does not mean most reasonable people run around with such a negative view of everything. Which, btw, is what I'm getting from your post. That you're one of those people.

SkyPuncher 3y ago

Sometimes your in an impossible situation. * If you tell the team to keep their trust, you loose management's trust. The good thing is you can't be put in this position if management won't tell you. The bad thing is you won't have a job. * If you don't tell the team, you loose their trust while keeping management's trust. At the end of the day, most managers are limited by corporate context they work in. They can only be as trustworthy as they're allowed to be.

JohnFen 3y ago
> They can only be as trustworthy as they're allowed to be. This may be true, but it still means they're untrustworthy. We all are responsible for our own actions. Behaving in an untrustworthy fashion says something important about a person even if (or especially if) they're behaving that way to save their own skin.

paulddraper 3y ago

Your choices are 1. Betray management trust. 2. Betray individual trust. 3. Quit.