4 ms·

But then why do we have to assume the views of extreme Palestinians as representative?

by ant6n 3y ago

true_religion 3y ago
Yes it does seem unfair doesn’t it? The Israelis have an open democratic process so it’s recorded that people have disagreements with the governments actions. However, Hamas ended democracy in Palestine so we can never hear of any opposition, even though surely it must exist.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Technically, the PLO also ended democracy in the West Bank. There hasn't been an election for quite some time.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    The government in the West Bank also strangely holds the notion that they operate in unity with the Gaza Strip but Hamas says they are independent. This stopped the 2018 elections from happening because Hamas won’t agree that its candidates should adhere to treaties signed by Fatah. The West Bank government also claims they can’t have elections unless it includes all Palestinians, including the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem residents. This stopped the 2021 elections because Israel wouldn’t enter any agreements ensuring the East Jerusalem residents could vote, and would not be penalized or disrupted from doing so. I am largely more sympathetic to this waffling because the West Bank is relatively peaceful, and I can see an election that doesn’t include all Palestinians could create the precedence that the current divisions are valid. But yes, I do think Fatah is also at fault.
- ant6n 3y ago
  But then it should be the other way round from what it is right now. For Israel, even though the government represents the people, I keep hearing "don't hold Israel responsible for the bad things Bibi does" -- when the election was a year or two ago. For Gaza, I keep hearing "but they elected Hamas, so they're responsible for all the bad deeds". That election was in 2006, close to two decades ago. Many (most?) people who live in Gaza now werent even alive back then.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    About 43 percent of the Gaza Strip population is under 18. I understand your point but I don’t think its very fair because even if an election were held tomorrow, these children could not vote. But in the heat of the moment I would be wary of drawing equivalence between any people and its war time government. Remember how swiftly all doubt vanished from common discourse in America after 9/11? People tend to wholehearted support their militaries during war, and wait until peacetime to determine if they made any mistakes.
  - pauldenton 3y ago
    [dead]
tasn 3y ago
First of all I don't. I'm pro-peace and I'm sure that there are many great people in Palestine too. I lived outside of Israel for the last decade and had Palestinian friends. Though there is a big difference between the opinions of fringe groups (in Israel), and the official position of the government (Hammas in Palestine).

But then why do we have to assume the views of extreme Palestinians as representative?

by ant6n 3y ago

But then why do we have to assume the views of extreme Palestinians as representative?

Yes it does seem unfair doesn’t it? The Israelis have an open democratic process so it’s recorded that people have disagreements with the governments actions. However, Hamas ended democracy in Palestine so we can never hear of any opposition, even though surely it must exist.

ethbr1 3y ago
Technically, the PLO also ended democracy in the West Bank. There hasn't been an election for quite some time.
- true_religion 3y ago
  The government in the West Bank also strangely holds the notion that they operate in unity with the Gaza Strip but Hamas says they are independent. This stopped the 2018 elections from happening because Hamas won’t agree that its candidates should adhere to treaties signed by Fatah. The West Bank government also claims they can’t have elections unless it includes all Palestinians, including the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem residents. This stopped the 2021 elections because Israel wouldn’t enter any agreements ensuring the East Jerusalem residents could vote, and would not be penalized or disrupted from doing so. I am largely more sympathetic to this waffling because the West Bank is relatively peaceful, and I can see an election that doesn’t include all Palestinians could create the precedence that the current divisions are valid. But yes, I do think Fatah is also at fault.
ant6n 3y ago
But then it should be the other way round from what it is right now. For Israel, even though the government represents the people, I keep hearing "don't hold Israel responsible for the bad things Bibi does" -- when the election was a year or two ago. For Gaza, I keep hearing "but they elected Hamas, so they're responsible for all the bad deeds". That election was in 2006, close to two decades ago. Many (most?) people who live in Gaza now werent even alive back then.
- true_religion 3y ago
  About 43 percent of the Gaza Strip population is under 18. I understand your point but I don’t think its very fair because even if an election were held tomorrow, these children could not vote. But in the heat of the moment I would be wary of drawing equivalence between any people and its war time government. Remember how swiftly all doubt vanished from common discourse in America after 9/11? People tend to wholehearted support their militaries during war, and wait until peacetime to determine if they made any mistakes.
- pauldenton 3y ago
  [dead]

tasn 3y ago

First of all I don't. I'm pro-peace and I'm sure that there are many great people in Palestine too. I lived outside of Israel for the last decade and had Palestinian friends. Though there is a big difference between the opinions of fringe groups (in Israel), and the official position of the government (Hammas in Palestine).