6 ms·

And when they do that people just fork and go along with their own. Tofu being a great example, opensearch somewhat less.

dartos 3y ago
By “people” you mean organizations with budgets and stakeholders. Very few people, even few programmers, would be able to take on maintaining complicated software like tofu alone, for example.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
More like Reddit. The contributors will just leave and you'll be left with a corpse of content to rip going forward. Tofu is different because of the broad contributor base around the Terraform ecosystem. Lots of people's jobs (or companies even, Spacelift for example) depend on Tofu not only existing, but improving into the future. If you have a benevolent dictator with deep pockets, throttling usage and retrieval is less of a concern. The Internet Archive comes to mind, as does Wikipedia. Reddit's outcome happened because they were a discussion board utility masquerading as a 10-100x VC funded business, and their actions drove away the concentration of mods and contributors who were putting in all the free work (broadly speaking).
- miki123211 3y ago
  Did anybody (outside of the tech/HN open-source-die-hard bubble) actually leave Reddit? From what I saw, there were protests which most Redit users barely noticed (the front-page just served content from the subreddits that didn't go private), and then there was nothing. The long-term impact seems to be small to nonexistent. Maybe if the users organized better and started posting "brand unsafe" content everywhere instead of just going dark, the effects (and especially the effects on advertisers and Reddit profitability) would have been different. One can dream, though.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Hard to say without Reddit showing their traffic cards, just anecdotal evidence. Admittedly, if you're consuming big subs similar to what you'd consume on Tiktok (r/funny, r/worldnews, etc), likely little impact to traffic. I know the mods from some of the subs I follow fled (admittedly smaller readership, r/econmonitor and r/machinelearning for example). Reddit will have to show their hand when they attempt to IPO, as they then tread into securities fraud territory if the metrics are not accurate. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36289290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36289290 (Ask HN: Anyone at Reddit can confirm a traffic dip?) (n=1, I consume Reddit now with a Lemmy mirror of the subs I'm interested in)
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      Is it easy to find Lemmy mirrors? I left reddit but haven't really replaced it.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        https://lemmyverse.net/communities https://lemmyverse.net/communities https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances https://github.com/mushroomlabs/fediverser https://github.com/mushroomlabs/fediverser https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+lemmy+mirrors+site%3Areddit.com https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+lemmy+mirrors+site%3A...
    - dingnuts 3y ago
      I'm addicted to the logged-out Reddit front page and I can tell you that besides a few subreddits committing suicide and being immediately replaced by similarly named subreddits that didn't care about the boycott, and a few days where more interesting content was getting surfaced when some big subs went dark, there has been absolutely zero noticeable effect on the average user experience. I would be -shocked- if Reddit had data showing that the protest was more than a fart in the wind
  - mplewis 3y ago
    Yes. The long-term impact of the quality of posts in interest subreddits is immediately noticeable and staggering. This is not even to speak of the moderators who are no longer participating.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    For my feed, a ton of the NSFW subreddits went away, became so low quality that following them was pointless as the mods left or engagement dropped to ridiculous levels, even the OG big tankers. r/gonewild for example has nominal 4.6 million subscribers - but among the default "hot" feed on the first page there's just four posts with > 500 karma, and on the 2nd page there's tons of posts with 80-120 karma. That's insanely low, back in ye olde days a simple boobie could easily hit 2k karma in a matter of hours, and there was pages and pages of highly upvoted content. Now, I can't say whether this is a consequence of users leaving, mods leaving, Reddit manually downranking NSFW sub engagements, or the massive increase of ragebait redirecting attention and engagement - r/europe is filled with utterly vile comments on everything regarding immigration and Islam, r/therewasanattempt even managed to get geobanned in Germany because they put up the (banned) Hamas slogan on their banner [1]. (In the German Reddit sphere, it seems that additionally Reddit has created a ton of outright clones of popular English subs like AitA, DIY, legaladvice, ... that further remove engagement from the large subs and redirect it to the small new ones - this "pushing" of new subs likely also drives NSFW subs with low engagement down the feed) [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/17vqch7/rtherewasanattempt_has_finally_been_banned_in/?sort=controversial https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/17vqch7/rtherewasan...
    - eamon0989 3y ago
      I follow r/europe and I have also noticed a huge change. What once seemed to be a pretty open subreddit appears to have turned into exactly what you mentioned, with vile comments on immigration and Islam on almost every thread. I did start to wonder if people's viewpoint on immigration has changed as the narrative that Europe is "saturated" with immigrants seems to be being pushed a lot at them moment, but I have a feeling that the audience of Reddit and r/europe seems to be changing. I wish there was some way to know for sure.
      - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        It's due to the extreme right wing and other opportunists fear mongering and inflaming people's grievances with an easy scapegoat that cannot defend itself. Social media of all kinds are effective tools in this. Vilification of minorities works, it always has, but those who would exploit it haven't had access to the public forums required to promote it. Now they have. Nuclear weapons won't destroy the earth, social media will.
  - terribleperson 3y ago
    I haven't left reddit, per se, but I browse it less and comment less. I doubt I'm alone. Unfortunately, there's not really a replacement for much of what it offered.

dartos 3y ago

By “people” you mean organizations with budgets and stakeholders. Very few people, even few programmers, would be able to take on maintaining complicated software like tofu alone, for example.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

More like Reddit. The contributors will just leave and you'll be left with a corpse of content to rip going forward. Tofu is different because of the broad contributor base around the Terraform ecosystem. Lots of people's jobs (or companies even, Spacelift for example) depend on Tofu not only existing, but improving into the future. If you have a benevolent dictator with deep pockets, throttling usage and retrieval is less of a concern. The Internet Archive comes to mind, as does Wikipedia. Reddit's outcome happened because they were a discussion board utility masquerading as a 10-100x VC funded business, and their actions drove away the concentration of mods and contributors who were putting in all the free work (broadly speaking).

miki123211 3y ago
Did anybody (outside of the tech/HN open-source-die-hard bubble) actually leave Reddit? From what I saw, there were protests which most Redit users barely noticed (the front-page just served content from the subreddits that didn't go private), and then there was nothing. The long-term impact seems to be small to nonexistent. Maybe if the users organized better and started posting "brand unsafe" content everywhere instead of just going dark, the effects (and especially the effects on advertisers and Reddit profitability) would have been different. One can dream, though.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Hard to say without Reddit showing their traffic cards, just anecdotal evidence. Admittedly, if you're consuming big subs similar to what you'd consume on Tiktok (r/funny, r/worldnews, etc), likely little impact to traffic. I know the mods from some of the subs I follow fled (admittedly smaller readership, r/econmonitor and r/machinelearning for example). Reddit will have to show their hand when they attempt to IPO, as they then tread into securities fraud territory if the metrics are not accurate. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36289290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36289290 (Ask HN: Anyone at Reddit can confirm a traffic dip?) (n=1, I consume Reddit now with a Lemmy mirror of the subs I'm interested in)
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    Is it easy to find Lemmy mirrors? I left reddit but haven't really replaced it.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      https://lemmyverse.net/communities https://lemmyverse.net/communities https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances https://github.com/mushroomlabs/fediverser https://github.com/mushroomlabs/fediverser https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+lemmy+mirrors+site%3Areddit.com https://www.google.com/search?q=reddit+lemmy+mirrors+site%3A...
  - dingnuts 3y ago
    I'm addicted to the logged-out Reddit front page and I can tell you that besides a few subreddits committing suicide and being immediately replaced by similarly named subreddits that didn't care about the boycott, and a few days where more interesting content was getting surfaced when some big subs went dark, there has been absolutely zero noticeable effect on the average user experience. I would be -shocked- if Reddit had data showing that the protest was more than a fart in the wind
- mplewis 3y ago
  Yes. The long-term impact of the quality of posts in interest subreddits is immediately noticeable and staggering. This is not even to speak of the moderators who are no longer participating.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  For my feed, a ton of the NSFW subreddits went away, became so low quality that following them was pointless as the mods left or engagement dropped to ridiculous levels, even the OG big tankers. r/gonewild for example has nominal 4.6 million subscribers - but among the default "hot" feed on the first page there's just four posts with > 500 karma, and on the 2nd page there's tons of posts with 80-120 karma. That's insanely low, back in ye olde days a simple boobie could easily hit 2k karma in a matter of hours, and there was pages and pages of highly upvoted content. Now, I can't say whether this is a consequence of users leaving, mods leaving, Reddit manually downranking NSFW sub engagements, or the massive increase of ragebait redirecting attention and engagement - r/europe is filled with utterly vile comments on everything regarding immigration and Islam, r/therewasanattempt even managed to get geobanned in Germany because they put up the (banned) Hamas slogan on their banner [1]. (In the German Reddit sphere, it seems that additionally Reddit has created a ton of outright clones of popular English subs like AitA, DIY, legaladvice, ... that further remove engagement from the large subs and redirect it to the small new ones - this "pushing" of new subs likely also drives NSFW subs with low engagement down the feed) [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/17vqch7/rtherewasanattempt_has_finally_been_banned_in/?sort=controversial https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/17vqch7/rtherewasan...
  - eamon0989 3y ago
    I follow r/europe and I have also noticed a huge change. What once seemed to be a pretty open subreddit appears to have turned into exactly what you mentioned, with vile comments on immigration and Islam on almost every thread. I did start to wonder if people's viewpoint on immigration has changed as the narrative that Europe is "saturated" with immigrants seems to be being pushed a lot at them moment, but I have a feeling that the audience of Reddit and r/europe seems to be changing. I wish there was some way to know for sure.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      It's due to the extreme right wing and other opportunists fear mongering and inflaming people's grievances with an easy scapegoat that cannot defend itself. Social media of all kinds are effective tools in this. Vilification of minorities works, it always has, but those who would exploit it haven't had access to the public forums required to promote it. Now they have. Nuclear weapons won't destroy the earth, social media will.
- terribleperson 3y ago
  I haven't left reddit, per se, but I browse it less and comment less. I doubt I'm alone. Unfortunately, there's not really a replacement for much of what it offered.