3 ms·

I used to get great results from modafinil. But it slowed to the point of having no effect at all. Was concerned I was getting fake ones. So went to India where

I used to get great results from modafinil. But it slowed to the point of having no effect at all. Was concerned I was getting fake ones. So went to India where its made, bought from source and same thing. This was years after I had stopped already. But I'm grateful for the focus it gave me for 3 or 4 years.

lynx23 3y ago
Long term tolerance... When I found Ibometin as a remedy for occasional headaches, I could only take half a pill and had to actually ly down because it felt rather strong. These days, I can eat two and dont even notice the ffects. And no, I dont take it regularily, more like every 2 or 3 months.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  I wonder if for some of these drugs it may not be a tolerance effect, but perhaps the drugs are just doing what they are going to do (a long-term physiological change) and after that point no longer have an effect. Like growth hormones after bone plates have fused.
  - AstralStorm 3y ago
    Most of those do not affect neurogenesis (some exceptions apply), but some can be outright neurotoxic chronically, potentially by excitotoxicity. Which means oxidative stress on neurons impairing their function. A bunch of strong serotonergics produce such effects. Normally SSRI are screened for it, but that's mostly for acute version... Dose scheduling is underresearched part of the whole ordeal. Sometimes a pause is necessary to prevent the damage or recerse the tolerance.
corndoge 3y ago
I had exactly the same experience over the same time period. Even waited a year and tried it again, same thing. Also started getting nasty side effects (dyspnea). Wasn't aware of any other drug that acts this way so i'm glad you made this comment because i've always wondered if it was the drug quality changing over time or if it was my reaction to the same drug.
itchyouch 3y ago
As someone with a real Rx for ADHD/Narcolepsy, I noticed the same thing after several years. After being on it for ~5 years it lost its magic and efficacy, so I ended up introducing lifestyle changes in the form of a 5-color-a-day smoothie, exercise & sleep. Lifestyle changes were helpful, but not quite enough. When I recently started back up, I noticed that Provigil was a bit too stimulating for me. And I've found a good balance in doing a 1/4 to 1/2 a pill. About 50-100mg dose + caffiene (coffee/tea/energy drink) instead of the typical 200mg. And that's been quite a nice boost. Adderall on the other hand is a massive dump of dopamine and focus, so the focus is there, but it's easy to become a stimulated zombie.
- xkcd-sucks 3y ago
  Someone, um, very close to me, who has an d-amphetamine RX, in grad school that found modafinil to be excellent in staving off psychosis caused by staying awake for several days in a row. However they also found developing better working habits and leaving academia to much more significantly improve quality of life.
  - Aurornis 3y ago
    Modafinil is a DAT inhibitor. Taking it will reduce the amount of amphetamine getting into neurons, effectively reducing or blocking the effects of the amphetamine because it can’t access the parts of your brain that it uses to operate. Your ‘friend’ was probably into overdose territory and the Modafinil antagonized the d-amphetamine while also inducing a wakefulness effect. I really hope your friend realizes how bad this was.
    - twayt 3y ago
      This description is wrong on so many levels. Amphetamine is primarily absorbed through the plasma membranes and not DAT since it’s lipid soluble. Dopamine does not and thus relies on DAT. By inhibiting DAT (as both amphetamine and Modafinil do), you increase extracellular dopamine. Next, DAT does not “transport amphetamine around the brain”. It only transports it from the post synaptic cleft into the cell. Also Modafinil is a much weaker DAT inhibitor than amphetamine itself as far as we know. Lastly, drugs don’t “antagonize” other drugs. That word is a specific term used for the action on the receptor level. The dopaminergic effects of Modafinil aren’t well known and are thought to be mild. It’s simply misinformation to claim that modafinil was somehow blocking the effects of amphetamine on the dopamine receptors.
Auracle 3y ago
I had a similar experience. I was taking it for idiopathic hypersomnia. At first it was a miracle drug, and then after only a few months it made me feel like absolute shit. Just - my whole body feeling bad, in a bad mood, etc. Hard to describe. I’ve asked my doctor for a prescription so that I could use it to go on stimulant breaks, but since I already have a prescription for Vyvanse and Adderall he was concerned I’d get drug audited. The last time I tried to find a good online Indian source it seems it’s very hard to find anything legit.
- Aurornis 3y ago
  You may already know this, but Pitolisant is a new non-stimulant medication that could be helpful. People either love it or find that it does nothing for them, so don’t get your hopes up too high. However, for patients who respond it seems to be a great improvement. Be warned that it can take a long time for the positive effects to appear. Unlike stimulants that work well on the first day and decline over the subsequent months/years, it seems to do very little or have uncomfortable side effects on the first few days and then reveal the positives after a month. And FYI, there’s a weird copayment reimbursement program from the manufacturer that makes it affordable for many. Dumb game to have to play, but it’s there.
Aurornis 3y ago
I remember someone showed me the subreddits for Modafinil and other stimulants (before they were banned, I believe). It felt like every 3rd post was from someone complaining that their Modafinil “didn’t work any more” and they didn’t realize that tolerance was going to set in. They thought they had discovered a free source of motivation in a pill. Of course, most people’s initial assumption was that they received fake pills. Not a bad assumption after ordering online with crypto from an overseas website, but most of the stories went the same way: It didn’t matter the source, it just wasn’t “working” for them any more. I’m always surprised that people understand how tolerance works for energy drinks, coffee, and other caffeine sources. But then they get exposed to prescription drugs and assume it’s going to feel like that forever. The second part of this problem is the misunderstanding about dosing. The prescription pill doses are set for continuous dosing of patients who need to take it every single day. A Narcolepsy patient taking 400mg of Modafinil every day forever is going to get into a steady-state tolerance that, ideally, brings their function back to a normal adult. A non-Narcoleptic person who takes 200mg or 400mg of Modafinil without having a baseline tolerance is going to be zipping around with extra stimulation. However, tolerance will set in eventually as well, leaving them with some stimulation, but nothing like those early doses when they had no tolerance. Again, this is a well known effect for other drugs like opioids or caffeine or benzos, but for some reason people forget the laws of tolerance apply to prescription stimulants too.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > It felt like every 3rd post was from someone complaining that their Modafinil “didn’t work any more” and they didn’t realize that tolerance was going to set in. I believe it's at least partially caused by incorrect expectations. When people start taking modafinil, the effects are quite strong and stimulant-like, sometimes even with mild euphoria. But then these effects disappear and people are like - what's happening, I can't feel it anymore? Tolerance or fake pills? I fell into this trap originally as well and was comparing production batches etc. But the actual reason is that with a pro-longed use, Modafinil doesn't "feel" like anything. There's no altered state of mind, there isn't even a mild kick you get from a coffee. Modafinil isn't a stimulant which would kind of push you to do things. It doesn't "give" you anything, it only "takes away" the fatigue, and this is far more difficult to notice. On a relaxing day off, it doesn't feel any different if I take modafinil or not.
trashface 3y ago
Had a similar effect with bupropion, which is an antidepressant not a stimulant, but known for its activating effects, unlike the SSRIs which make some people (including me) super sleepy. Unfortunately I wasted the period where bupropion was giving me energy by pumping it into a dead end job, which eventually went away. I should have 100% used it to find a new job.
polotics 3y ago
According to Hubermann, Modafinil will boost your dopamine. I suspect once you raised your baseline level enough, you end up lower

lynx23 3y ago

Long term tolerance... When I found Ibometin as a remedy for occasional headaches, I could only take half a pill and had to actually ly down because it felt rather strong. These days, I can eat two and dont even notice the ffects. And no, I dont take it regularily, more like every 2 or 3 months.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
I wonder if for some of these drugs it may not be a tolerance effect, but perhaps the drugs are just doing what they are going to do (a long-term physiological change) and after that point no longer have an effect. Like growth hormones after bone plates have fused.
- AstralStorm 3y ago
  Most of those do not affect neurogenesis (some exceptions apply), but some can be outright neurotoxic chronically, potentially by excitotoxicity. Which means oxidative stress on neurons impairing their function. A bunch of strong serotonergics produce such effects. Normally SSRI are screened for it, but that's mostly for acute version... Dose scheduling is underresearched part of the whole ordeal. Sometimes a pause is necessary to prevent the damage or recerse the tolerance.

corndoge 3y ago

I had exactly the same experience over the same time period. Even waited a year and tried it again, same thing. Also started getting nasty side effects (dyspnea). Wasn't aware of any other drug that acts this way so i'm glad you made this comment because i've always wondered if it was the drug quality changing over time or if it was my reaction to the same drug.

itchyouch 3y ago

As someone with a real Rx for ADHD/Narcolepsy, I noticed the same thing after several years. After being on it for ~5 years it lost its magic and efficacy, so I ended up introducing lifestyle changes in the form of a 5-color-a-day smoothie, exercise & sleep. Lifestyle changes were helpful, but not quite enough. When I recently started back up, I noticed that Provigil was a bit too stimulating for me. And I've found a good balance in doing a 1/4 to 1/2 a pill. About 50-100mg dose + caffiene (coffee/tea/energy drink) instead of the typical 200mg. And that's been quite a nice boost. Adderall on the other hand is a massive dump of dopamine and focus, so the focus is there, but it's easy to become a stimulated zombie.

xkcd-sucks 3y ago
Someone, um, very close to me, who has an d-amphetamine RX, in grad school that found modafinil to be excellent in staving off psychosis caused by staying awake for several days in a row. However they also found developing better working habits and leaving academia to much more significantly improve quality of life.
- Aurornis 3y ago
  Modafinil is a DAT inhibitor. Taking it will reduce the amount of amphetamine getting into neurons, effectively reducing or blocking the effects of the amphetamine because it can’t access the parts of your brain that it uses to operate. Your ‘friend’ was probably into overdose territory and the Modafinil antagonized the d-amphetamine while also inducing a wakefulness effect. I really hope your friend realizes how bad this was.
  - twayt 3y ago
    This description is wrong on so many levels. Amphetamine is primarily absorbed through the plasma membranes and not DAT since it’s lipid soluble. Dopamine does not and thus relies on DAT. By inhibiting DAT (as both amphetamine and Modafinil do), you increase extracellular dopamine. Next, DAT does not “transport amphetamine around the brain”. It only transports it from the post synaptic cleft into the cell. Also Modafinil is a much weaker DAT inhibitor than amphetamine itself as far as we know. Lastly, drugs don’t “antagonize” other drugs. That word is a specific term used for the action on the receptor level. The dopaminergic effects of Modafinil aren’t well known and are thought to be mild. It’s simply misinformation to claim that modafinil was somehow blocking the effects of amphetamine on the dopamine receptors.

Auracle 3y ago

I had a similar experience. I was taking it for idiopathic hypersomnia. At first it was a miracle drug, and then after only a few months it made me feel like absolute shit. Just - my whole body feeling bad, in a bad mood, etc. Hard to describe. I’ve asked my doctor for a prescription so that I could use it to go on stimulant breaks, but since I already have a prescription for Vyvanse and Adderall he was concerned I’d get drug audited. The last time I tried to find a good online Indian source it seems it’s very hard to find anything legit.

Aurornis 3y ago
You may already know this, but Pitolisant is a new non-stimulant medication that could be helpful. People either love it or find that it does nothing for them, so don’t get your hopes up too high. However, for patients who respond it seems to be a great improvement. Be warned that it can take a long time for the positive effects to appear. Unlike stimulants that work well on the first day and decline over the subsequent months/years, it seems to do very little or have uncomfortable side effects on the first few days and then reveal the positives after a month. And FYI, there’s a weird copayment reimbursement program from the manufacturer that makes it affordable for many. Dumb game to have to play, but it’s there.

Aurornis 3y ago

I remember someone showed me the subreddits for Modafinil and other stimulants (before they were banned, I believe). It felt like every 3rd post was from someone complaining that their Modafinil “didn’t work any more” and they didn’t realize that tolerance was going to set in. They thought they had discovered a free source of motivation in a pill. Of course, most people’s initial assumption was that they received fake pills. Not a bad assumption after ordering online with crypto from an overseas website, but most of the stories went the same way: It didn’t matter the source, it just wasn’t “working” for them any more. I’m always surprised that people understand how tolerance works for energy drinks, coffee, and other caffeine sources. But then they get exposed to prescription drugs and assume it’s going to feel like that forever. The second part of this problem is the misunderstanding about dosing. The prescription pill doses are set for continuous dosing of patients who need to take it every single day. A Narcolepsy patient taking 400mg of Modafinil every day forever is going to get into a steady-state tolerance that, ideally, brings their function back to a normal adult. A non-Narcoleptic person who takes 200mg or 400mg of Modafinil without having a baseline tolerance is going to be zipping around with extra stimulation. However, tolerance will set in eventually as well, leaving them with some stimulation, but nothing like those early doses when they had no tolerance. Again, this is a well known effect for other drugs like opioids or caffeine or benzos, but for some reason people forget the laws of tolerance apply to prescription stimulants too.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
The_Colonel 3y ago
> It felt like every 3rd post was from someone complaining that their Modafinil “didn’t work any more” and they didn’t realize that tolerance was going to set in. I believe it's at least partially caused by incorrect expectations. When people start taking modafinil, the effects are quite strong and stimulant-like, sometimes even with mild euphoria. But then these effects disappear and people are like - what's happening, I can't feel it anymore? Tolerance or fake pills? I fell into this trap originally as well and was comparing production batches etc. But the actual reason is that with a pro-longed use, Modafinil doesn't "feel" like anything. There's no altered state of mind, there isn't even a mild kick you get from a coffee. Modafinil isn't a stimulant which would kind of push you to do things. It doesn't "give" you anything, it only "takes away" the fatigue, and this is far more difficult to notice. On a relaxing day off, it doesn't feel any different if I take modafinil or not.

trashface 3y ago

Had a similar effect with bupropion, which is an antidepressant not a stimulant, but known for its activating effects, unlike the SSRIs which make some people (including me) super sleepy. Unfortunately I wasted the period where bupropion was giving me energy by pumping it into a dead end job, which eventually went away. I should have 100% used it to find a new job.

polotics 3y ago

According to Hubermann, Modafinil will boost your dopamine. I suspect once you raised your baseline level enough, you end up lower