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A huge part of the problem with LLM based no code is that the output is non-deterministic, so you can only check in the output to version control. Imagine what

A huge part of the problem with LLM based no code is that the output is non-deterministic, so you can only check in the output to version control. Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have.

coldpie 3y ago
> Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have. Joking reply: Have you seen modern software development? Joking-but-not-really reply: I wonder if someone could train a "bad AI code to human-maintainable code" AI.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  I'd prefer a "bad human code to AI-readable code" AI.
bsima 3y ago
If you can so easily and cheaply generate a new version of the app/widget, why would you even use traditional version control?
- sfink 3y ago
  Generally because although you can easily generate new versions, it is difficult to generate a new version that is different from the old version in a specific way, without also being different in 100 other ways that you didn't want. It's like a revision control system where when you submit a commit that changes one line, which it faithfully records, it also records a change in dozens of other lines in the file. (Which leads you down the merry road of Stable Diffusion where you can "inpaint" that one line, but now it's not able to adjust the rest of things to accommodate that change because you told it not to...)
saddlerustle 3y ago
The gpt4-turbo api is now deterministic
- Q6T46nT668w6i3m 3y ago
  It isn’t. It’s “mostly deterministic,” whatever that means. https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/text-generation/reproducible-outputs https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/text-generation/repr...
  - nick222226 3y ago
    From the link: Sometimes, determinism may be impacted due to necessary changes OpenAI makes to model configurations on our end. To help you keep track of these changes, we expose the system_fingerprint field. If this value is different, you may see different outputs due to changes we've made on our systems.
jonnycoder 3y ago
This reminds me of what I’ve been saying to friends… we will either see al lot more layoffs of us software engineers or another big boom because the technology is moving way faster than normal humans can learn. Non tech people will just hire software engineers to do it for them.

coldpie 3y ago

> Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have. Joking reply: Have you seen modern software development? Joking-but-not-really reply: I wonder if someone could train a "bad AI code to human-maintainable code" AI.

meiraleal 3y ago
I'd prefer a "bad human code to AI-readable code" AI.

bsima 3y ago

If you can so easily and cheaply generate a new version of the app/widget, why would you even use traditional version control?

sfink 3y ago
Generally because although you can easily generate new versions, it is difficult to generate a new version that is different from the old version in a specific way, without also being different in 100 other ways that you didn't want. It's like a revision control system where when you submit a commit that changes one line, which it faithfully records, it also records a change in dozens of other lines in the file. (Which leads you down the merry road of Stable Diffusion where you can "inpaint" that one line, but now it's not able to adjust the rest of things to accommodate that change because you told it not to...)

saddlerustle 3y ago

The gpt4-turbo api is now deterministic

Q6T46nT668w6i3m 3y ago
It isn’t. It’s “mostly deterministic,” whatever that means. https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/text-generation/reproducible-outputs https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/text-generation/repr...
- nick222226 3y ago
  From the link: Sometimes, determinism may be impacted due to necessary changes OpenAI makes to model configurations on our end. To help you keep track of these changes, we expose the system_fingerprint field. If this value is different, you may see different outputs due to changes we've made on our systems.

jonnycoder 3y ago

This reminds me of what I’ve been saying to friends… we will either see al lot more layoffs of us software engineers or another big boom because the technology is moving way faster than normal humans can learn. Non tech people will just hire software engineers to do it for them.