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Call me an unbeliever, but I don’t believe in the future of no code solutions. You will still have to align that button at smaller device resolutions, leave ext

Call me an unbeliever, but I don’t believe in the future of no code solutions. You will still have to align that button at smaller device resolutions, leave extra space so it looks nice in another language, and other requirements. Maybe it’ll enable us to use even more abstracted languages to build apps faster at most. This only works for extremely basic and common things like tic tac toe and not original works.

code_runner 3y ago
I think a lot of these demos aren't necessarily trying to push forward a no-code purist approach, but rather showing how you can get basically a live wireframe going in no time at all. I think tools like canva, figma, etc will be all over this stuff and really improve high-fidelity wireframes/demos
twoquestions 3y ago
That was my initial gut reaction, this will be an utter nightmare to customize and integrate. Wonderful for prototyping though.
yoav 3y ago
It’s like autotune. Artisans who can sing on key will continue to make very interesting things. But also in parallel a whole new wave of people that couldn’t or didn’t want to learn to sing on key will make entirely new genres of music and also pop for the masses with far less effort. Even the artisans will use it sparingly to enhance and perfect and speed up some of their workflows
- sarchertech 3y ago
  Unlike software, a song doesn’t need to be maintained to keep working. A song doesn’t need to grow in complexity as more people use it, and a song can’t contain subtle bugs that steal listeners’ credit cards or damage other songs. Of course metaphors have limits, but the limits of this particular metaphor hide all of the flaws of this technology.
- brlewis 3y ago
  "Entirely new genres" of anything is unlikely from ML models trained on existing work. Someone using AI to implement an entirely new idea will be frustrated as the AI keeps gravitating toward convention.
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  It's more like autotune in that "literally everyone will use it all the time."
sarchertech 3y ago
A huge part of the problem with LLM based no code is that the output is non-deterministic, so you can only check in the output to version control. Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have.
- coldpie 3y ago
  > Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have. Joking reply: Have you seen modern software development? Joking-but-not-really reply: I wonder if someone could train a "bad AI code to human-maintainable code" AI.
  - meiraleal 3y ago
    I'd prefer a "bad human code to AI-readable code" AI.
- bsima 3y ago
  If you can so easily and cheaply generate a new version of the app/widget, why would you even use traditional version control?
  - sfink 3y ago
    Generally because although you can easily generate new versions, it is difficult to generate a new version that is different from the old version in a specific way, without also being different in 100 other ways that you didn't want. It's like a revision control system where when you submit a commit that changes one line, which it faithfully records, it also records a change in dozens of other lines in the file. (Which leads you down the merry road of Stable Diffusion where you can "inpaint" that one line, but now it's not able to adjust the rest of things to accommodate that change because you told it not to...)
kubiton 3y ago
Either LLM / ai becomes perfect or we will start writing code/frameworks which makes it much easier for LLM/ai to use them.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
Look at the success of ComfyUI in the Generative AI world and node-based editing in the graphics world (i.e. blender). "No code" works, but it has to be tailored towards experts who want to actual write code sometimes, not billed as making it possible for suits to write software.

code_runner 3y ago

I think a lot of these demos aren't necessarily trying to push forward a no-code purist approach, but rather showing how you can get basically a live wireframe going in no time at all. I think tools like canva, figma, etc will be all over this stuff and really improve high-fidelity wireframes/demos

twoquestions 3y ago

That was my initial gut reaction, this will be an utter nightmare to customize and integrate. Wonderful for prototyping though.

yoav 3y ago

It’s like autotune. Artisans who can sing on key will continue to make very interesting things. But also in parallel a whole new wave of people that couldn’t or didn’t want to learn to sing on key will make entirely new genres of music and also pop for the masses with far less effort. Even the artisans will use it sparingly to enhance and perfect and speed up some of their workflows

sarchertech 3y ago
Unlike software, a song doesn’t need to be maintained to keep working. A song doesn’t need to grow in complexity as more people use it, and a song can’t contain subtle bugs that steal listeners’ credit cards or damage other songs. Of course metaphors have limits, but the limits of this particular metaphor hide all of the flaws of this technology.
brlewis 3y ago
"Entirely new genres" of anything is unlikely from ML models trained on existing work. Someone using AI to implement an entirely new idea will be frustrated as the AI keeps gravitating toward convention.
bongodongobob 3y ago
It's more like autotune in that "literally everyone will use it all the time."

sarchertech 3y ago

A huge part of the problem with LLM based no code is that the output is non-deterministic, so you can only check in the output to version control. Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have.

coldpie 3y ago
> Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have. Joking reply: Have you seen modern software development? Joking-but-not-really reply: I wonder if someone could train a "bad AI code to human-maintainable code" AI.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  I'd prefer a "bad human code to AI-readable code" AI.
bsima 3y ago
If you can so easily and cheaply generate a new version of the app/widget, why would you even use traditional version control?
- sfink 3y ago
  Generally because although you can easily generate new versions, it is difficult to generate a new version that is different from the old version in a specific way, without also being different in 100 other ways that you didn't want. It's like a revision control system where when you submit a commit that changes one line, which it faithfully records, it also records a change in dozens of other lines in the file. (Which leads you down the merry road of Stable Diffusion where you can "inpaint" that one line, but now it's not able to adjust the rest of things to accommodate that change because you told it not to...)

kubiton 3y ago

Either LLM / ai becomes perfect or we will start writing code/frameworks which makes it much easier for LLM/ai to use them.

Der_Einzige 3y ago

Look at the success of ComfyUI in the Generative AI world and node-based editing in the graphics world (i.e. blender). "No code" works, but it has to be tailored towards experts who want to actual write code sometimes, not billed as making it possible for suits to write software.