4 ms·

This has been 3rd or 4th time in HN I have commented on top voted posts making very general statement about LLM without defining the terms. And I have never got

This has been 3rd or 4th time in HN I have commented on top voted posts making very general statement about LLM without defining the terms. And I have never gotten any reply. LLM discussions in HN has become so shallow like there are two sides. Please define what you mean by hallucination.

tveita 3y ago
A different way to state the claim may be "whatever LLMs do, they do it all the time" There are no separate modes of operation when GPT-4 is telling me about Javascript's "console.log" method, and when it's telling me about Rackets non-existing "sum" function. The network has no way of telling that the strands of probability are wearing thin under it's feet. The engine spins and churns out another token and we deem it "correct" or "incorrect".
TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
Hallucination in this context is when LLMs make up stuff. The OP's assertion is "make up stuff" is all LLMs really do and sometimes the stuff they made up matches reality - and sometimes it doesn't.
intended 3y ago
“the generated content that is nonsensical or unfaithful to the provided source content” Ji et al 2022
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  If I go with this definition, and ask it say what is 2*2, it is not nonsensical or unfaithful. So there is one example where it is not hallucinating?
  - 4ndrewl 3y ago
    Or where hallucinating truth co-indices with our understanding of truth?
4ndrewl 3y ago
Happy to reply. Let's ask LLM to generate some text given a prompt. It replies with a bunch of words. Let's ask LLM to generate some text given a different prompt. It replies with a bunch of other words. In both instances, the model worked correctly, and as defined. It produced a bunch of words based on context, statistics and some forced randomness. If we call one of them an hallucination because it does not match how we would expect a human to respond, we have to accept the other is also an hallucination because it was generated in exactly the same way, using exactly the same model. If you disagree, ask the LLM to 'Compose a single-line avant-garde poem about rainbows, without mentioning rainbows'. Look at the reply. How would you tell whether it's hallucinating or not?
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  What should a non hallucinating human reply to 'Compose a single-line avant-garde poem about rainbows, without mentioning rainbows'? Also my objection wasn't that it hallucinates, my objection was to the OP's point that it only hallucinates. If I ask it what is 2*2 and it answers 4 would that be a hallucination or not?
  - 4ndrewl 3y ago
    Why would that matter?

tveita 3y ago

A different way to state the claim may be "whatever LLMs do, they do it all the time" There are no separate modes of operation when GPT-4 is telling me about Javascript's "console.log" method, and when it's telling me about Rackets non-existing "sum" function. The network has no way of telling that the strands of probability are wearing thin under it's feet. The engine spins and churns out another token and we deem it "correct" or "incorrect".

TerrifiedMouse 3y ago

Hallucination in this context is when LLMs make up stuff. The OP's assertion is "make up stuff" is all LLMs really do and sometimes the stuff they made up matches reality - and sometimes it doesn't.

intended 3y ago

“the generated content that is nonsensical or unfaithful to the provided source content” Ji et al 2022

YetAnotherNick 3y ago
If I go with this definition, and ask it say what is 2*2, it is not nonsensical or unfaithful. So there is one example where it is not hallucinating?
- 4ndrewl 3y ago
  Or where hallucinating truth co-indices with our understanding of truth?

4ndrewl 3y ago

Happy to reply. Let's ask LLM to generate some text given a prompt. It replies with a bunch of words. Let's ask LLM to generate some text given a different prompt. It replies with a bunch of other words. In both instances, the model worked correctly, and as defined. It produced a bunch of words based on context, statistics and some forced randomness. If we call one of them an hallucination because it does not match how we would expect a human to respond, we have to accept the other is also an hallucination because it was generated in exactly the same way, using exactly the same model. If you disagree, ask the LLM to 'Compose a single-line avant-garde poem about rainbows, without mentioning rainbows'. Look at the reply. How would you tell whether it's hallucinating or not?

YetAnotherNick 3y ago
What should a non hallucinating human reply to 'Compose a single-line avant-garde poem about rainbows, without mentioning rainbows'? Also my objection wasn't that it hallucinates, my objection was to the OP's point that it only hallucinates. If I ask it what is 2*2 and it answers 4 would that be a hallucination or not?
- 4ndrewl 3y ago
  Why would that matter?