7 ms·

As far as I can tell it’s basically used cooking oil and waste fats.

by guidedlight 3y ago

darreninthenet 3y ago
And the planes will smell delicious
- nielsbot 3y ago
  I have noticed that bio-diesel cars smell like burning french fries... so maybe you're not that far off...
Ralo 3y ago
Interesting. I've been running that for years in my diesel truck. A mechanical diesel will run basically whatever you can pump through its fuel system. I assume jet engines are roughly the same. However they have some major standards, and can't risk running recycled fryer oil from the Chinese restaurant down the street.
- earthscienceman 3y ago
  What truck do you have, how did you modify it, and whats your opinion on why it's not more common?
  - Ralo 3y ago
    1994 Toyota pickup with a Om617 swap. I bought a kit for the engine swap then did all the work to swap it. I did nothing to handle the oil. It just works. You pour it in the tank and go. However, it doesn't work in the winter without a heater or additives. It's not more common because a) mechanic diesels are old technology and means you'll be driving an old vehicle. b) WVO is a hit or miss in your area. Lots of restaurants will get paid for their old oil by recycling centers so most wont give it away. c) processing it is tough until you get a system in place As well you can run on so many different fluids. Waste motor oil, waste transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc.
    - davidzweig 3y ago
      Can you just pour used motor oil into the tank of such an engine? It's always a hassle to dispose of at home.
      - la_oveja 3y ago
        It will happily burn in the cilinder, however catalytic converters and other parts will not be so happy. And of course, its awfully contaminant.
      - Gabrys1 3y ago
        Motor oil burns more rapidly than diesel. You'll get more "power" but also less durability. Burning motor oil happens when your turbo breaks down and puts all your oil via the air inlet to your engine. It's hard to stop that engine until all the oil is used. Didn't find an article in English, so here's a random one in Polish: https://www.autobaza.pl/page/news/choroba-szalonych-diesli-czym-jest/ https://www.autobaza.pl/page/news/choroba-szalonych-diesli-c...
        la_oveja 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway
      - bombcar 3y ago
        You need a multi-fuel engine for that to work without special care. But yes, you can pour motor oil into the tank of your Deuce and a Half and let it rip.
      - opwieurposiu 3y ago
        The Caterpillar diesel engine manual says you can burn up to 5% used motor oil without affecting the warrantee. It does say to make sure you filter the used oil so as not to gunk up your fuel system. For a large engine that produces many buckets of oil at each change, this is a good way to get rid of the stuff.
      - 3y ago
  - davidzweig 3y ago
    I ran my 1999 Nissan Primera 2.0 turbo diesel on virgin vegtable oil for a couple of years (I had about 400L in the back when taking the channel ferry to to drive around Europe). It cost 0.40p/l instead of 1.20/l in the UK. Bought it from a farmer from an ad on eBay. No modification needed, but you need to have a couple of fuel filters and a tool to change it handy, in case you have a blockage (more common when first starting to run on oil). In winter add 5-10% petrol to keep the viscosity down. You can always add diesel to the tank without issue. I think many 90s indirect-injection diesels can run vegtable oil without modification, but some ppl add a fuel heating system or a dual-fuel switchover system. There were newspaper stories of ppl going into Tescos and filling their trollies with 5L bottles of vegtable oil, then going to the parking and filling their tanks. Later (virgin) vegetable oil became more expensive than diesel, used oil is a different story. Bonus: when reversing, or at the lights with a breeze, you often notice an odour like fried chips. :) It probably wasn't more common because it was some hassle with the fuel filters and potential damage to fuel pump (some are built better than others). The Nissan had a license-built Bosch design that was solid.
    - highwaylights 3y ago
      If I’m at the lights, and you floor it and take off to leave my car smelling of battered haddock I guess you could call it… Rolling Cod Thanks. Here all week! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
      - NikkiA 3y ago
        Shame on you for not going with Rolling Sole [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_(fish) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_(fish)
        highwaylights 3y ago
        Yeah this would have been better
    - j-a-a-p 3y ago
  - kolinko 3y ago
    In Poland at least, people were doing it - mostly rural in their tractors - but just straight using cooking oil for your trucks&tractors is illegal - too much pollution. Of course SAF is cleaned up to different standards. Also, SAF is not just cooking oil, they use various kinds of tech.
    - davidzweig 3y ago
      Running personal cars on cooking oil was legal in the UK up to a certain number of litres/year. I think it was more an issue of taxation, I'm not aware that it creates additional polution.
      - kolinko 3y ago
        I just checked and you're right. In Poland it's also during taxation - the penalties for using that are due to taxation laws, not environmental laws.
        bombcar 3y ago
        In the USA (and other countries) there's something called "red dye" which is dyed diesel for use on off-road farm equipment, much less taxes on it. If they catch you with it in your truck (by dipping the tank) you get big tax-evasion fines.
  - mcronce 3y ago
    Not a truck, but my buddy had an old 300SDL (1984, I think) He would just run whatever in that. I think my favorite was peanut oil, it made the neighborhood smell like Chinese food.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  > A mechanical diesel will run basically whatever you can pump through its fuel system. I assume jet engines are roughly the same. This is very much not the case. They run on kerosene which is highly refined and pure. It has a lower freezing point, higher flash point and lower viscosity, which are obviously positive characteristics when flying in -45C temps high in the atmosphere.
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    Those are requirements of the use case, not the underlying technology. Turbines are famously adaptable to different fuels. Mechanical diesels will run on bunker fuel.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      Yes, of course, but we're talking about jet engines, as per the comment I was responding to. No jet engine runs on "whatever".
      - devilbunny 3y ago
        I think you overread it and OP meant turbines generally, but yes, if you mean only jets, that’s different.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  > A mechanical diesel will run basically whatever you can pump through its fuel system. Not really true. They won't even run on gasoline, and if you put it in your tank by mistake it's probably going to be expensive.
kolinko 3y ago
In practice it's mostly that, but to a way lesser degree it's other kinds of tech - even direct CO2 capture (although that one is very expensive). Here is a definition from EASA: https://www.easa.europa.eu/eco/eaer/topics/sustainable-aviation-fuels/what-are-sustainable-aviation-fuels#drop-in-saf-production-pathways https://www.easa.europa.eu/eco/eaer/topics/sustainable-aviat... Lufthansa's Compensaid originally had a whole portfolio of projects that delivered SAF, but I can see that they mostly switched to cooking oil by now. https://lufthansa.compensaid.com/projects/sustainable-aviation-fuel https://lufthansa.compensaid.com/projects/sustainable-aviati...
j-a-a-p 3y ago
If you wonder where all this cooking oil comes from? Go to China. Regularly you see old, small trucks with open containers and a worker collecting the oil straight from the sewer. If you pass them you automatically go to the other side of the street because of the smell. (This probably exists everywhere, but the capture system used in my country is more or less invisible for the bystander) Apparently there is a lot of oil produced by all the restaurants. Dirty fact, when I lived in China, the scandal of the day was counterfeit oil (underground oil). The original idea was to use this oil for fuel. However these fuel converter factories went bankrupt because another industry found a higher value: refine the oil and distribute it as new in counterfeit containers.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  These containers are allll over the place, but you probably don't notice them. Most commonly, I see them as the tiny little dumpster next to the main dumpster. Can be hard to spot since most of them are in a dumpster corale.
- amluto 3y ago
  Are you sure that’s the sewer? Even in China, the goal of sewer management is to keep things flowing at reasonable cost. In the US, there are two widespread solutions: 1. The ultimate in cost reduction: a 55 gallon drum out back. When it’s full, someone collects it. It’s far more cost effective to dump your oil in a 55 gallon drum than to dump it in a sink and hope you don’t immediately have to call a plumber to clean up the mess. 2. A grease trap: a not-particularly-expensive device like this: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/4235/grease-traps.html https://www.webstaurantstore.com/4235/grease-traps.html Are you sure the tricks weren’t collecting oil from drums and grease traps? I’ve never looked at oil collection in China. But here’s a Wikipedia article showing what looks like 55 gallon drums: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil
  - organsnyder 3y ago
    Grease traps are required in all commercial kitchens here in Michigan. AFAIK they're more intended to protect the sewer system rather than for day-to-day grease disposal.
tromp 3y ago
Just the other day I saw for the first time in my life, a "vetboer" (Dutch for fat farmer) truck parked outside the local bar/cafe, and as I turned the corner they were leaving the bar with a big blue barrel. According to their website [1], the fats and oils they collect are recycled into biofuel for vehicles and green power for households. Maybe in the future they'll mention aircraft as well... [1] https://www.devetboer.nl/ https://www.devetboer.nl/
throw0101a 3y ago
See also "Conversion of VW Jetta Diesel to Burn Vegetable Oil": * https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/WVOConcersion/WVOJetaConversion.htm https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/WVOConcersion/... * https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15129612/how-to-convert-your-diesel-to-run-on-vegetable-oil/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15129612/how-to-conve... More: * https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/my-volkswagen-runs-on-veggie-oil/article689985/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/my-volkswagen-runs-on-v... * https://archive.li/ONJo1 https://archive.li/ONJo1 Some analysis: * https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/diesel-vs-biodiesel-vs-vegetable-oil/index.htm https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/diesel-vs-biodie... In a more official capacity: * https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/tdfrying-oil-audi-makes-its-v6-tdi-engines-compatible-with-vegetable-oil-based-fuel/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/tdfrying-oil-audi-makes-it...

As far as I can tell it’s basically used cooking oil and waste fats.

darreninthenet 3y ago

And the planes will smell delicious

nielsbot 3y ago
I have noticed that bio-diesel cars smell like burning french fries... so maybe you're not that far off...

Ralo 3y ago

Interesting. I've been running that for years in my diesel truck. A mechanical diesel will run basically whatever you can pump through its fuel system. I assume jet engines are roughly the same. However they have some major standards, and can't risk running recycled fryer oil from the Chinese restaurant down the street.

earthscienceman 3y ago
What truck do you have, how did you modify it, and whats your opinion on why it's not more common?
- Ralo 3y ago
  1994 Toyota pickup with a Om617 swap. I bought a kit for the engine swap then did all the work to swap it. I did nothing to handle the oil. It just works. You pour it in the tank and go. However, it doesn't work in the winter without a heater or additives. It's not more common because a) mechanic diesels are old technology and means you'll be driving an old vehicle. b) WVO is a hit or miss in your area. Lots of restaurants will get paid for their old oil by recycling centers so most wont give it away. c) processing it is tough until you get a system in place As well you can run on so many different fluids. Waste motor oil, waste transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc.
  - davidzweig 3y ago
    Can you just pour used motor oil into the tank of such an engine? It's always a hassle to dispose of at home.
    - la_oveja 3y ago
      It will happily burn in the cilinder, however catalytic converters and other parts will not be so happy. And of course, its awfully contaminant.
    - Gabrys1 3y ago
      Motor oil burns more rapidly than diesel. You'll get more "power" but also less durability. Burning motor oil happens when your turbo breaks down and puts all your oil via the air inlet to your engine. It's hard to stop that engine until all the oil is used. Didn't find an article in English, so here's a random one in Polish: https://www.autobaza.pl/page/news/choroba-szalonych-diesli-czym-jest/ https://www.autobaza.pl/page/news/choroba-szalonych-diesli-c...
      - la_oveja 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway
    - bombcar 3y ago
      You need a multi-fuel engine for that to work without special care. But yes, you can pour motor oil into the tank of your Deuce and a Half and let it rip.
    - opwieurposiu 3y ago
      The Caterpillar diesel engine manual says you can burn up to 5% used motor oil without affecting the warrantee. It does say to make sure you filter the used oil so as not to gunk up your fuel system. For a large engine that produces many buckets of oil at each change, this is a good way to get rid of the stuff.
    - 3y ago
- davidzweig 3y ago
  I ran my 1999 Nissan Primera 2.0 turbo diesel on virgin vegtable oil for a couple of years (I had about 400L in the back when taking the channel ferry to to drive around Europe). It cost 0.40p/l instead of 1.20/l in the UK. Bought it from a farmer from an ad on eBay. No modification needed, but you need to have a couple of fuel filters and a tool to change it handy, in case you have a blockage (more common when first starting to run on oil). In winter add 5-10% petrol to keep the viscosity down. You can always add diesel to the tank without issue. I think many 90s indirect-injection diesels can run vegtable oil without modification, but some ppl add a fuel heating system or a dual-fuel switchover system. There were newspaper stories of ppl going into Tescos and filling their trollies with 5L bottles of vegtable oil, then going to the parking and filling their tanks. Later (virgin) vegetable oil became more expensive than diesel, used oil is a different story. Bonus: when reversing, or at the lights with a breeze, you often notice an odour like fried chips. :) It probably wasn't more common because it was some hassle with the fuel filters and potential damage to fuel pump (some are built better than others). The Nissan had a license-built Bosch design that was solid.
  - highwaylights 3y ago
    If I’m at the lights, and you floor it and take off to leave my car smelling of battered haddock I guess you could call it… Rolling Cod Thanks. Here all week! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
    - NikkiA 3y ago
      Shame on you for not going with Rolling Sole [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_(fish) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_(fish)
      - highwaylights 3y ago
        Yeah this would have been better
  - j-a-a-p 3y ago
- kolinko 3y ago
  In Poland at least, people were doing it - mostly rural in their tractors - but just straight using cooking oil for your trucks&tractors is illegal - too much pollution. Of course SAF is cleaned up to different standards. Also, SAF is not just cooking oil, they use various kinds of tech.
  - davidzweig 3y ago
    Running personal cars on cooking oil was legal in the UK up to a certain number of litres/year. I think it was more an issue of taxation, I'm not aware that it creates additional polution.
    - kolinko 3y ago
      I just checked and you're right. In Poland it's also during taxation - the penalties for using that are due to taxation laws, not environmental laws.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        In the USA (and other countries) there's something called "red dye" which is dyed diesel for use on off-road farm equipment, much less taxes on it. If they catch you with it in your truck (by dipping the tank) you get big tax-evasion fines.
- mcronce 3y ago
  Not a truck, but my buddy had an old 300SDL (1984, I think) He would just run whatever in that. I think my favorite was peanut oil, it made the neighborhood smell like Chinese food.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> A mechanical diesel will run basically whatever you can pump through its fuel system. I assume jet engines are roughly the same. This is very much not the case. They run on kerosene which is highly refined and pure. It has a lower freezing point, higher flash point and lower viscosity, which are obviously positive characteristics when flying in -45C temps high in the atmosphere.
- devilbunny 3y ago
  Those are requirements of the use case, not the underlying technology. Turbines are famously adaptable to different fuels. Mechanical diesels will run on bunker fuel.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    Yes, of course, but we're talking about jet engines, as per the comment I was responding to. No jet engine runs on "whatever".
    - devilbunny 3y ago
      I think you overread it and OP meant turbines generally, but yes, if you mean only jets, that’s different.
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
> A mechanical diesel will run basically whatever you can pump through its fuel system. Not really true. They won't even run on gasoline, and if you put it in your tank by mistake it's probably going to be expensive.

kolinko 3y ago

In practice it's mostly that, but to a way lesser degree it's other kinds of tech - even direct CO2 capture (although that one is very expensive). Here is a definition from EASA: https://www.easa.europa.eu/eco/eaer/topics/sustainable-aviation-fuels/what-are-sustainable-aviation-fuels#drop-in-saf-production-pathways https://www.easa.europa.eu/eco/eaer/topics/sustainable-aviat... Lufthansa's Compensaid originally had a whole portfolio of projects that delivered SAF, but I can see that they mostly switched to cooking oil by now. https://lufthansa.compensaid.com/projects/sustainable-aviation-fuel https://lufthansa.compensaid.com/projects/sustainable-aviati...

j-a-a-p 3y ago

If you wonder where all this cooking oil comes from? Go to China. Regularly you see old, small trucks with open containers and a worker collecting the oil straight from the sewer. If you pass them you automatically go to the other side of the street because of the smell. (This probably exists everywhere, but the capture system used in my country is more or less invisible for the bystander) Apparently there is a lot of oil produced by all the restaurants. Dirty fact, when I lived in China, the scandal of the day was counterfeit oil (underground oil). The original idea was to use this oil for fuel. However these fuel converter factories went bankrupt because another industry found a higher value: refine the oil and distribute it as new in counterfeit containers.

SkyPuncher 3y ago
These containers are allll over the place, but you probably don't notice them. Most commonly, I see them as the tiny little dumpster next to the main dumpster. Can be hard to spot since most of them are in a dumpster corale.
amluto 3y ago
Are you sure that’s the sewer? Even in China, the goal of sewer management is to keep things flowing at reasonable cost. In the US, there are two widespread solutions: 1. The ultimate in cost reduction: a 55 gallon drum out back. When it’s full, someone collects it. It’s far more cost effective to dump your oil in a 55 gallon drum than to dump it in a sink and hope you don’t immediately have to call a plumber to clean up the mess. 2. A grease trap: a not-particularly-expensive device like this: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/4235/grease-traps.html https://www.webstaurantstore.com/4235/grease-traps.html Are you sure the tricks weren’t collecting oil from drums and grease traps? I’ve never looked at oil collection in China. But here’s a Wikipedia article showing what looks like 55 gallon drums: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil
- organsnyder 3y ago
  Grease traps are required in all commercial kitchens here in Michigan. AFAIK they're more intended to protect the sewer system rather than for day-to-day grease disposal.

tromp 3y ago

Just the other day I saw for the first time in my life, a "vetboer" (Dutch for fat farmer) truck parked outside the local bar/cafe, and as I turned the corner they were leaving the bar with a big blue barrel. According to their website [1], the fats and oils they collect are recycled into biofuel for vehicles and green power for households. Maybe in the future they'll mention aircraft as well... [1] https://www.devetboer.nl/ https://www.devetboer.nl/

throw0101a 3y ago

See also "Conversion of VW Jetta Diesel to Burn Vegetable Oil": * https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/WVOConcersion/WVOJetaConversion.htm https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/WVOConcersion/... * https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15129612/how-to-convert-your-diesel-to-run-on-vegetable-oil/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15129612/how-to-conve... More: * https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/my-volkswagen-runs-on-veggie-oil/article689985/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/my-volkswagen-runs-on-v... * https://archive.li/ONJo1 https://archive.li/ONJo1 Some analysis: * https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/diesel-vs-biodiesel-vs-vegetable-oil/index.htm https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/diesel-vs-biodie... In a more official capacity: * https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/tdfrying-oil-audi-makes-its-v6-tdi-engines-compatible-with-vegetable-oil-based-fuel/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/tdfrying-oil-audi-makes-it...