3 ms·

Some of the biggest misanthropes, bigots etc. I interacted with online live in remote villages or even precisely like described, in a house in middle of natur

Some of the biggest misanthropes, bigots etc. I interacted with online live in remote villages or even precisely like described, in a house in middle of nature. They never even lived in a big city but they think it's bad, streets are full of shit, every other person you see is a criminal or swindler (and don't even mention immigrants) and so on. The mistake of the author is thinking wilderness is required for solitude and being in a big city is not. Can't you be equally or more alone in a city? If I had enough interaction I can stay in my apartment or go for a walk in the nature nearby and nothing requires me to talk to anyone. After a while I want to get out meet a friend or just talk to a colleague again. (But if you meet another person while alone in the middle of wilderness, try not talking to them... you may easily be considered rude even if you really just need a breather) The author calls himself a "man of compassion" but the phrasing of this article says "I'm full of myself".

hutzlibu 3y ago
"But if you meet another person while alone in the middle of wilderness, try not talking to them... you may easily be considered rude even if you really just need a breather" Not my experience. Just nod and go on your way if you don't feel like talking. No person from the woods would be offended by this. (Unless it is their forest and they would like to know who wanders around their turf)
- throwaway290 3y ago
  "Nod" is direct interaction/communication and explicit acknowledgement of another human-- the opposite of solitude and definitely not required in a big city.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    While it technically is interaction, I'd argue it's very different than what's going on in cities. As always, YMMV, but oftentimes, interaction is forced on you in cities and you can't get away from it. You talk about being alone in your apartment. Many people don't have that luxury. Even though they "live alone", "interaction" is forced on them thanks to paper-thin walls and their neighbors going about their business – no need for them be obnoxious. I'd argue not being able to get away from the unwanted noise, ever, is what drives people in cities mad.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      what's frustrating is it doesn't have to be that way. We have the know-how to install proper noise pollution prevention, yet we don't do that (in the US) because it would cost more money.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        But I do like to open a window from time to time. So .. we can certainly reduce noise in the cities (yay for electric cars), but not eliminate it completely.
      - vladvasiliu 3y ago
        Indeed. From what I hear, here in France, new construction [0] has to abide by noise insulation standards, which considers noise coming from both outside and neighbors. In Paris, there are very few such buildings, since it's mostly old stock. An '80's building is "new". I don't know what these standards are worth. And the main issue is that outside clear-cut cases (say, being above a noisy bar), you can't tell beforehand how well insulated it is. My current apartment was built well before these regulations came in effect. When I visited it several times, I was very happy: no noise to be heard. I could distinctly hear the clicking of my iPhone buttons. Now, I can tell when my upstairs neighbor sits down for lunch, since I can hear him dragging the chair on the floor. I also knows he gets up around 6 in the morning, since I can hear him take a piss. People taking the stairs going and coming from work also make a racket. Bonus points for people playing the piano. Fortunately, this doesn't happen all day long without interruption, so there are periods of silence. But it's still bothering me when I try to focus (I work from home a lot). Sure, as the other poster said, it's nice to be able to open a window, in which case nothing can stop the traffic noise. But this is something that can be inspected easily upfront: don't live on a busy street / around a "party" area. --- [0] I don't remember the year that went into effect, but it's after 2000.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      > You talk about being alone in your apartment. Many people don't have that luxury. Even though they "live alone", "interaction" is forced on them thanks to paper-thin walls and their neighbors going about their business – no need for them be obnoxious. That is a problem in some places. In fact, I have never seen my neighbor but I do hear him occasionally at wrong hours. I don't know if it's that much of a difference than some random wildlife waking you up in the wilderness. Would you feel like you lost your solitude? In my case I do feel annoyed and disturbed, but why should it make me feel like I am now not alone? No one is interacting with me, unless I take others going about their business as a personal attack for some reason, surely not their intent? But yes I think your argument is sound (sorry couldn't help it), I hate noise and in fact bad soundproofing is why I want to move.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    But it is not talking. And if you want, you surely can easily find places in the wilderness, where you see no one.
trimethylpurine 3y ago
>Some of the biggest misanthropes, bigots etc. I interacted with online live in remote villages By "bigot," did you mean someone who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ? It would be ironic if you did.
RoyalHenOil 3y ago
I live in a remote village in Australia (well, between two remote villages of some 200-250 people each), and I also grew up in one of the largest cities in the US. This has not been my experience at all. For example, the people in the area I live now are far more LGBT-friendly, far more accepting of different religions or no religion, etc., than the people I grew up with. This is also reflected in their voting patterns (the area I live routinely votes more progressively than even the most progressive city in Australia). At the same, they are much more reserved than the people I grew up with. They don't greet me (nor I them) unless we both look up and make eye contact, making it easy to duck your head and just be left alone when you're running errands. (I think this is a mental survival technique for rural areas, because you are constantly running into people you know, and you would lose your mind if you spoke to them all.) And they never, ever make random conversation with strangers, whereas that was the norm where I grew up. They aren't unfriendly or unwelcoming; they just feel uncomfortable putting other people on the spot like that because it's not a part of the culture here. I think you are exhibiting some unfounded biases against rural people -- like you have this stereotype of what they must all be like, and now you are unfairly applying that stereotype to people you've never met. It's ironic that bigotry is one of the traits you attribute to them. I recommend going out into the world and meeting a greater variety of people who live very differently from you. It would help you recognize the shared humanity we all posses and let go of this bitter, insular instinct you have toward outsiders.
robertlagrant 3y ago
> thinking wilderness is required for solitude and being in a big city is not. Can't you be equally or more alone in a city? If you took the walls away, you'd find you're probably standing very close to some other people! You're not alone, any more than someone in a cube farm works in a very large private office.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  > If you took the walls away, you'd find you're probably standing very close to some other people! You're not alone, any more than someone in a cube farm works in a very large private office. That's what the article gets wrong too. Whether you are in solitude is not a metric of "distance to the next person disregarding obstacles". I am much less likely to talk or acknowledge my neighbor than my friend a thousand miles away in another country or a nosy passer by on a trekking track. I don't even know what my neighbors look like.

hutzlibu 3y ago

"But if you meet another person while alone in the middle of wilderness, try not talking to them... you may easily be considered rude even if you really just need a breather" Not my experience. Just nod and go on your way if you don't feel like talking. No person from the woods would be offended by this. (Unless it is their forest and they would like to know who wanders around their turf)

throwaway290 3y ago
"Nod" is direct interaction/communication and explicit acknowledgement of another human-- the opposite of solitude and definitely not required in a big city.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  While it technically is interaction, I'd argue it's very different than what's going on in cities. As always, YMMV, but oftentimes, interaction is forced on you in cities and you can't get away from it. You talk about being alone in your apartment. Many people don't have that luxury. Even though they "live alone", "interaction" is forced on them thanks to paper-thin walls and their neighbors going about their business – no need for them be obnoxious. I'd argue not being able to get away from the unwanted noise, ever, is what drives people in cities mad.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    what's frustrating is it doesn't have to be that way. We have the know-how to install proper noise pollution prevention, yet we don't do that (in the US) because it would cost more money.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      But I do like to open a window from time to time. So .. we can certainly reduce noise in the cities (yay for electric cars), but not eliminate it completely.
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      Indeed. From what I hear, here in France, new construction [0] has to abide by noise insulation standards, which considers noise coming from both outside and neighbors. In Paris, there are very few such buildings, since it's mostly old stock. An '80's building is "new". I don't know what these standards are worth. And the main issue is that outside clear-cut cases (say, being above a noisy bar), you can't tell beforehand how well insulated it is. My current apartment was built well before these regulations came in effect. When I visited it several times, I was very happy: no noise to be heard. I could distinctly hear the clicking of my iPhone buttons. Now, I can tell when my upstairs neighbor sits down for lunch, since I can hear him dragging the chair on the floor. I also knows he gets up around 6 in the morning, since I can hear him take a piss. People taking the stairs going and coming from work also make a racket. Bonus points for people playing the piano. Fortunately, this doesn't happen all day long without interruption, so there are periods of silence. But it's still bothering me when I try to focus (I work from home a lot). Sure, as the other poster said, it's nice to be able to open a window, in which case nothing can stop the traffic noise. But this is something that can be inspected easily upfront: don't live on a busy street / around a "party" area. --- [0] I don't remember the year that went into effect, but it's after 2000.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    > You talk about being alone in your apartment. Many people don't have that luxury. Even though they "live alone", "interaction" is forced on them thanks to paper-thin walls and their neighbors going about their business – no need for them be obnoxious. That is a problem in some places. In fact, I have never seen my neighbor but I do hear him occasionally at wrong hours. I don't know if it's that much of a difference than some random wildlife waking you up in the wilderness. Would you feel like you lost your solitude? In my case I do feel annoyed and disturbed, but why should it make me feel like I am now not alone? No one is interacting with me, unless I take others going about their business as a personal attack for some reason, surely not their intent? But yes I think your argument is sound (sorry couldn't help it), I hate noise and in fact bad soundproofing is why I want to move.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  But it is not talking. And if you want, you surely can easily find places in the wilderness, where you see no one.

trimethylpurine 3y ago

>Some of the biggest misanthropes, bigots etc. I interacted with online live in remote villages By "bigot," did you mean someone who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ? It would be ironic if you did.

RoyalHenOil 3y ago

I live in a remote village in Australia (well, between two remote villages of some 200-250 people each), and I also grew up in one of the largest cities in the US. This has not been my experience at all. For example, the people in the area I live now are far more LGBT-friendly, far more accepting of different religions or no religion, etc., than the people I grew up with. This is also reflected in their voting patterns (the area I live routinely votes more progressively than even the most progressive city in Australia). At the same, they are much more reserved than the people I grew up with. They don't greet me (nor I them) unless we both look up and make eye contact, making it easy to duck your head and just be left alone when you're running errands. (I think this is a mental survival technique for rural areas, because you are constantly running into people you know, and you would lose your mind if you spoke to them all.) And they never, ever make random conversation with strangers, whereas that was the norm where I grew up. They aren't unfriendly or unwelcoming; they just feel uncomfortable putting other people on the spot like that because it's not a part of the culture here. I think you are exhibiting some unfounded biases against rural people -- like you have this stereotype of what they must all be like, and now you are unfairly applying that stereotype to people you've never met. It's ironic that bigotry is one of the traits you attribute to them. I recommend going out into the world and meeting a greater variety of people who live very differently from you. It would help you recognize the shared humanity we all posses and let go of this bitter, insular instinct you have toward outsiders.

robertlagrant 3y ago

> thinking wilderness is required for solitude and being in a big city is not. Can't you be equally or more alone in a city? If you took the walls away, you'd find you're probably standing very close to some other people! You're not alone, any more than someone in a cube farm works in a very large private office.

throwaway290 3y ago
> If you took the walls away, you'd find you're probably standing very close to some other people! You're not alone, any more than someone in a cube farm works in a very large private office. That's what the article gets wrong too. Whether you are in solitude is not a metric of "distance to the next person disregarding obstacles". I am much less likely to talk or acknowledge my neighbor than my friend a thousand miles away in another country or a nosy passer by on a trekking track. I don't even know what my neighbors look like.