3 ms·

Why doesn't anyone enter? It takes billions and billions of dollars, tons of knowledge and if you get it wrong...even Intel screwed it up, and they are one of t

Why doesn't anyone enter? It takes billions and billions of dollars, tons of knowledge and if you get it wrong...even Intel screwed it up, and they are one of the only companies would could even try to do it.

spiralpolitik 3y ago
Right now Intel is hamstrung because there is no separation between the fab and design sides. Nobody is going to trust Intel to fab their latest and greatest while the two sides are joined at the hip. The sooner Intel spins out the fab side into its own entity the better positioned it will be to pick up the business that TSMC doesn't have capacity for.
- michaelt 3y ago
  I've seen plenty of Amazon's competitors running on AWS, plenty of Google's competitors using gmail, and suchlike. People will overlook a lot, if the product is compelling enough and the sales guys can keep a straight face while promising not to peek.
- sofixa 3y ago
  But the whole problem at Intel is that they're not at the level of TSMC, they're years and generations behind. Splitting them up won't just magically make the fab business be better, and without the profit margins of the sale of processors it's unlikely they'll have the resources to invest to get them to be good. Case in point: AMD are doing very well after spinning off their fabs, but their fabs are not doing very well (relatively of course - they're just stuck to where they split and haven't had meaningful advances; but they're still a profitable business because those older chips are needed too).
goodbyesf 3y ago
> It takes billions and billions of dollars Apple and Microsoft are trillion dollar companies ( both nearing $3 trillion market caps ). They can afford it. Heck they have the balance sheet to acquire both tsmc and samsung if either were up for sale. I thought Apple was moving towards being a full-stack company. Where all the hardware and software is developed in-house. If anyone has the resources, it is apple.
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  > I thought Apple was moving towards being a full-stack company. Where all the hardware and software is developed in-house. If anyone has the resources, it is apple. Having a modern chip fab binds an insane amount of capital, and makes you much more vulnerable in case of market turbulences. This is exactly a reason why there exist people who like to claim that Intel should spin off their fabs.
  - andy_ppp 3y ago
    Depends how those market turbulences occur, for example a Chinese invasion of Taiwan will be a disaster for Apple.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  It would be value destructive for Apple to buy TSMC and not service any other customers
sassy_quat 3y ago
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spiralpolitik 3y ago

Right now Intel is hamstrung because there is no separation between the fab and design sides. Nobody is going to trust Intel to fab their latest and greatest while the two sides are joined at the hip. The sooner Intel spins out the fab side into its own entity the better positioned it will be to pick up the business that TSMC doesn't have capacity for.

michaelt 3y ago
I've seen plenty of Amazon's competitors running on AWS, plenty of Google's competitors using gmail, and suchlike. People will overlook a lot, if the product is compelling enough and the sales guys can keep a straight face while promising not to peek.
sofixa 3y ago
But the whole problem at Intel is that they're not at the level of TSMC, they're years and generations behind. Splitting them up won't just magically make the fab business be better, and without the profit margins of the sale of processors it's unlikely they'll have the resources to invest to get them to be good. Case in point: AMD are doing very well after spinning off their fabs, but their fabs are not doing very well (relatively of course - they're just stuck to where they split and haven't had meaningful advances; but they're still a profitable business because those older chips are needed too).

goodbyesf 3y ago

> It takes billions and billions of dollars Apple and Microsoft are trillion dollar companies ( both nearing $3 trillion market caps ). They can afford it. Heck they have the balance sheet to acquire both tsmc and samsung if either were up for sale. I thought Apple was moving towards being a full-stack company. Where all the hardware and software is developed in-house. If anyone has the resources, it is apple.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> I thought Apple was moving towards being a full-stack company. Where all the hardware and software is developed in-house. If anyone has the resources, it is apple. Having a modern chip fab binds an insane amount of capital, and makes you much more vulnerable in case of market turbulences. This is exactly a reason why there exist people who like to claim that Intel should spin off their fabs.
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  Depends how those market turbulences occur, for example a Chinese invasion of Taiwan will be a disaster for Apple.
scarface_74 3y ago
It would be value destructive for Apple to buy TSMC and not service any other customers

sassy_quat 3y ago

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