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NTSB Calls for Technology to Reduce Speeding in All New Cars
- h2odragon 3y agoThe value of my old beaters keeps going up.
- nonrepeating 3y agoMeanwhile my new EV keeps feeling more and more like a quiet and comfortable tracking collar.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoYou can be tracked without the EV. License plate readers, cell tower logs, electronic payment transactions, etc. Laws are for preventing tech from being a panopticon. The tech is inevitable.
- Eumenes 3y agoWe need more of this: https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/02/blade-runners-fight-back-against-controversial-ulez-scheme-in-london https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/02/blade-runners-fight-back...
- nottheengineer 3y agoThe tracking goes much deeper than that [1] and it isn't the only part of the ongoing overdigitalization of cars. Access to diagnostics and the ability to repair them yourself have suffered a lot with the introduction of EVs. Parts and manuals are harder to find for those than ICE cars. Mercedes won't even let you open the hood of the EQS you bought from them. [1] https://therecord.media/class-action-lawsuit-cars-text-messages-privacy https://therecord.media/class-action-lawsuit-cars-text-messa...
- toomuchtodo 3y agoYes, agreed, yet another call for very aggressive right to repair law. If you own it, you must be allowed to repair it yourself, full stop. That Mercedes example is egregious AF.
- esoterae 3y agoThey'll just invent a better idiot.
- ameminator 3y agoNTSB may want to consider regulating the size of new trucks and SUVs, which are disproportionately causing deaths and damage, instead of inventing new problems for themselves.
- ortusdux 3y agoI've wondered if fines should scale with vehicle weight. Specifically, fines designed to prevent or reduce the damage caused by collisions. In theory, a 6000lb truck going 70 mph would be twice as destructive as a 3000lb car at the same speed.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoMuch more than twice
- skyyler 3y agohttps://www.resources.org/common-resources/how-much-do-regulations-for-fuel-economy-and-emissions-incentivize-the-production-of-larger-vehicles/ https://www.resources.org/common-resources/how-much-do-regul... Interestingly, the large trucks and SUVs seem to be partially the result of fuel efficiency regulations.
- cdolan 3y agoGreat example of unintended consequences
- kyrra 3y agoEPA is trying to close that loophole: https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-lo... Washington Post predicted this 12 years ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/cafe-loophole-could-lead-to-bigger-cars/2011/12/14/gIQA3bGLuO_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/cafe-lo...
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- mike_d 3y agoI've often joked that my retirement plan is to put all my money into buying and warehousing a fleet of base model Kias. I'll operate a rental service of cars that "just work" to criminals who want to rob banks or escape the robot police.
- kgermino 3y agoOf course base model Kias are so low tech they take about 90 seconds to steal, so there's tradeoffs :)
- throwaway48r7r 3y agoPlausible deniability for his customers
- encoderer 3y agoHonestly it’s genius. Maybe ICE cars will be outlawed in cities eventually? That’s the only flaw.
- explaininjs 3y ago“Do you know why I pulled you over?” “Because I robbed that bank?” “No, because you’re using gasoline. We can’t prosecute robberies less than $950k”.
- grecy 3y ago> Maybe ICE cars will be outlawed in cities eventually? They already are in various cities around the world [1] Note lots of European cities are also banning diesel vehicles, and tons of cities in Central and South America only allow you to drive your vehicle every second day. Odd license plates one day, even the next. We're about to see massive, massive changes. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/cities-going-car-free-ban-2018-12#new-york-city-banned-cars-from-central-park-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/cities-going-car-free-ban-20...
- encoderer 3y agoIf you’re speeding dangerously you know it. What the heck is a warning going to do besides distract the speeding driver?
- wnevets 3y agoThat isn't always true, for example I find it too easy to speed in 25MPH zones. This tech also ruins the excuse the driver didn't realize they were speeding, good luck fighting that ticket.
- sirmike_ 3y agoThey would still have to prove you were the one driving the car.
- sgift 3y agoDoesn't the car owner get the ticket and has to pay if no one else accepts that they drove the car? (That's a serious question. It's how it's done in Germany.)
- sirmike_ 3y agoIn my state it’s unconstitutional for automated ticket systems since it can’t be reliably determined who drove the car.
- wnevets 3y agoPretty sure the cop can figure that out when they ask for your license and registration.
- sirmike_ 3y agoIf it’s an old school cop sure! But if it’s an automated system… not so sure
- greyface- 3y ago
- ortusdux 3y agoSome countries in Europe have average speed cameras. They photograph you at two points along a highway, and if your average speed is over the limit you get a fine.
- grecy 3y agoAustralia has this on pretty much every two lane freeway in the country. If you speed, you are guaranteed to get a ticket.
- ls612 3y agoWhat sorts of speed limits do they have in Aus? When I was there there was a mix of 2 lane roads and divided highways which looked similar to interstates once I was outside of the city but I wasn’t driving. For context, 100-110km/h is how fast you’d safely go on the 2 lane roads and 130km/h on rural divided highways in the US (maybe even 140km/h in really flat states).
- grecy 3y agoAustralian limits are either 100km/h 110km/h. Only the Northern Territory (which is an oddity) has a max of 130km/h (it used to be unlimited)
- junofan 3y agoHow well do they work to reduce the speed of drivers high on cocaine and PCP?
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- toast0 3y agoIt's called potholes; and it works for all cars, not just new ones.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y agoWhat a way to spin the infrastructure problems!
- 1970-01-01 3y agoIncluding ambulances, firetrucks, and police cars.
- exabrial 3y agoHow about instead we just ticket for following distance? That's the main culprit.
- skeaker 3y agoI think this is a major issue as well. Adequate following distances give you a reasonable amount of time to stop should the car ahead of you slam on the brakes for any reason, it gives other cars the ability to seamlessly change lanes rather than slow down which causes traffic, and they cost you almost no time as you can create a following distance by dropping your speed to literally 1-2 MPH less than the guy in front of you for 30 seconds (and going that much slower for that little time can add less than a second to your trip time depending on your average speed). This all feels intuitive yet so many people on the road fail to keep a distance for no discernible reason. Is it that they think you're supposed to be close to the car ahead? Is it that they feel driving is a competition rather than a cooperative arrangement set up so that nobody crashes into anybody else?
- hermitdev 3y ago> The board issued the recommendations Tuesday at a public board meeting after determining the crash was caused by excessive speed, drug-impaired driving and Nevada’s failure to deter the driver’s speeding recidivism due to systemic deficiencies, despite numerous speeding citations. So, despite drug use and a history of speeding by the at-fault driver, the rest of us must suffer. Got it.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoI'm interested by the way societies balance the freedom of one individual vs. the risk they pose to a large number of others. Personally, I'm inclined towards solutions that many would consider very harsh towards the offender. But that's softened over time as I've become more aware human's limited ability to dispense true justice. E.g., wrongful convictions in death-penalty cases.
- nwiswell 3y ago> Personally, I'm inclined towards solutions that many would consider very harsh towards the offender. What is your reasoning? The literature suggests that harsher penalties do not significantly affect the rate or severity of offenses. Even if you feel that those punishments are just, long jail sentences are expensive to society. Probably the most straightforward thing is to burden people who do care about rules, eg. not only take away their license, but make it illegal to sell or furnish a car to anyone listed on an online "no drive" list.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago> What is your reasoning? Just to be clear, I'm talking about my instinctive gut-reaction to the issue, not my settled view. I'm not 100% sure where that instinct comes from; probably somewhere in the depths of my psyche and/or world view.
- sgift 3y ago"suffer". Being warned when you speed or in the future (cause we all know that HN loves slippery slope arguments) not being able to speed. The horror.
- hightrix 3y agoHow about a call to review and increase speed limits in many areas where they are set way too low. Country roads where the speed limit is 55, then magically goes to 35 for half a mile and back up to 55, and there's no cross road or houses within 10 miles. Interstates and Freeways with miles upon miles of multilane, straight roads and 55 MPH speed limits. And on and on. Before it is said, I'm not talking about school zones, community, or other populated areas that have low speed limits.
- busterarm 3y agoHonestly speed limits shouldn't go up in these places until we open up deer hunting. They're an absolute menace and it's precisely these country roads you're talking about where I can count 100 deer on a 20 minute drive at night.
- pc86 3y agoWho is "we" in this context? I've lived in several states and in each one hunting generally, and deer hunting specifically, is immensely popular.
- busterarm 3y agoI'm not sure there's any municipality that appropriately treats deer like the pests that they are. We've driven away their natural predators (wolves) and they absolutely destroy every ecosystem that they're in. IMO, the policy should be full cull, no restrictions.
- projectazorian 3y agoYou usually can't hunt in city limits.
- pc86 3y agoI seriously doubt that's what they're advocating, but even if it was there aren't typically herds of deer within city limits either.
- ssalka 3y agoThis makes me wonder, why are cars built to go ~120mph in the first place, when I can't think of a single place in the US where it is legal to drive that fast on a public road?
- k8sToGo 3y agoBecause an engine works more efficient if it is not running at its limits. So driving at 90mph with an engine that can go 120mph is more efficient than an engine that can go 90mph.
- 1970-01-01 3y agoDepends on the design. Smokey got them past their limits and made them extra efficient: https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads/smokey-yunicks-hot-vapor-engine-why-isnt-it-used-today.2552975/ https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads/smokey-yunicks-hot-vapo...
- busterarm 3y agoPrivate roads are a thing too. Also racetracks.
- 1970-01-01 3y agoAll roads are not public.
- genocidicbunny 3y agoThe vast, vast majority of cars are designed with public roads in mind. Out of the huge number of people that drive in the US, a very small portion regularly use their cars off public roads where 120mph is a usable speed.
- 1970-01-01 3y agoAnd that's why we already have limiters in them. This article is about exceeding the speed limits, not going over 120MPH.
- mrdoornbos 3y agoHow about no.
- mrdoornbos 3y agoHow about we don't.
- apozem 3y agoThis is a fantastic idea. No one should be able to endanger pedestrians and other drivers through reckless speeding, which killed 12,330 people in the US in 2021 alone [0]. [0]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding
- systemvoltage 3y agoAcceptable trade off. Driving and transportation are fundamental to economic growth. We should however enforce laws of speeding. Not through tyrannical measures like this though. You can’t say “I want a DIY culture” but also “it’s unlawful to hack my car”. Pick one. The government has strict ways to make this trade off. Human life is evaluated in dollar amounts. This might make certain emotions running high, but it’s the only way to assess. Otherwise the safest society is no society at all. Practical Engineering channel on YT recently did a video about this.
- xnx 3y ago> Driving and transportation are fundamental to economic growth. Absolutely. Is going 103 mph fundamental to economic growth? I don't think it is.
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- systemvoltage 3y agoDriving in general is. We can argue about specifics, you just made up 103 mph number but that's an acceptable speed on Autobahn. The core argument is: Do we want 0 deaths? If so, what is acceptable number of deaths? And I shed light on how Gov calculates this.
- xnx 3y agoDefinitely need to weigh the pros and cons of any change. > you just made up 103 mph number but that's an acceptable speed on Autobahn. That's how fast the car was going in the article, and it was definitely not on the Autobahn or anything like it. I stand that it would be a very sane/reasonable change that vehicles in the us should be limited to 85 mph (the highest posted speed limit on any road).
- fofoz 3y agoAll New Cars Must Now Have Intelligent Speed Limiters In Europe https://www.carthrottle.com/news/all-new-cars-must-now-have-intelligent-speed-limiters-europe https://www.carthrottle.com/news/all-new-cars-must-now-have-...
- 1970-01-01 3y agoJust give me the legal privledge of going fast. I'll take any fair test you have to prove that I can do it without crashing.
- karaterobot 3y agoGlad this is only a recommendation at this phase. I suspect it's in that class of solutions which would create an enormous and dystopian enforcement apparatus far more troubling than the problem it was created to solve. For me, anyway, your mileage may vary (ha ha). I don't deny that traffic accidents are a problem, but let's not forget that traffic fatalities (both by vehicle mile and by population) peaked about 100 years ago, a lifetime before SUVs and "big ol' trucks" became a thing. They are now about 5% of that apex, trending generally downward or staying about the same[1]. If this is enacted (and probably even if it isn't) I suspect I will just drive older, dumber vehicles until we have actual self-driving cars, skipping the intervening period of having cars too dumb to drive themselves, but which think they are smart enough to police how I drive. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...
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- throw7 3y agoIn India, the cars give a warning sound after crossing a certain speed. It is dumb and annoying. No one cares. Just another "safety" regulation that increases the prices for us.
- nunez 3y agoSo they're recommending that auto manufacturers add what cars already come with (speed limit warnings) and still leaving it to the states to do and enforce whatever they want. Nice.