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I think the bigger problem for the community is that the M3 absolutely spanks it in performance. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_7_7840u-vs-

I think the bigger problem for the community is that the M3 absolutely spanks it in performance. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_7_7840u-vs-apple_m3_max_16_cpu_40_gpu https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_7_7840u-... It's not just a matter of poor drivers and not being able to wake up from sleep. You typical Mac lasts for tens of hours on battery and runs faster than Intel/AMD's flagship laptop grade processors. This is a big deal and if the x64 hardware people don't up their game soon, the Linux on desktop community will be hurt as users would move to the Apple ecosystem, despite the non-free nature. The gap has grown too big.

rstuart4133 3y ago
> the Linux on desktop community will be hurt as users would move to the Apple ecosystem, despite the non-free nature. That's an odd thing to say given given GNU/Linux runs on more architectures than any other OS. For example there is a Chromebook, which is (or is slated to become?) a skin over GNU/Linux. That includes using Wayland. If you want access to the full GNU/Linux stack, Chromebook's provide Crostini. Your point about Apple pulling off a step change with the M series is correct of course, and Asahi Linux notwithstanding we don't have full access to it. But other hardware vendors see that as an opportunity - if they can produce an equivalent they can take advantage of the fact that Apple produces a premium product most of the world doesn't want to pay for. When they do, GNU/Linux users will be among the early adopters. It's difficult to see how be GNU/Linux could get left behind. AMD/Intel on the other hand are likely shitting themselves. They've now had years to catch up, but has been very little sign of it. That mountain of technical debt created by the necessity of backward compatibility is proving very hard to move. The are starting to look like dinosaurs that are pretty safe in their niche, but the world has moved on and that niche is shrinking.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
  > That's an odd thing to say given given GNU/Linux runs on more architectures than any other OS. So? Any other architecture that outperforms the M3 on both efficiency and power?
  - rstuart4133 3y ago
    > So? Any other architecture that outperforms the M3 on both efficiency and power? No that I know of. But that wasn't disputing that. I was commenting on your speculation the open source community would flee to a closed source operating system because the M3 currently reins supreme. I doubt they will. I also doubt M gap will Apple's engineers created will be a long term thing.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  It is quite clear that many UNIX folks that only care about a POSIX like experience, have long migrated to OS X as their daily driver. Exactly because of this migration, did Microsoft see an business opportunity to come up with WSL, and be an alternative to Apple's offerings. Being one of those UNIX folks, that has long made use of Virtual Box and VMWare, instead of wasting time dual booting. Crostini is a good example of GNU/Linux desktop still not being there, and I quote, " - Cameras aren't yet supported. - Android devices are supported over USB, but other devices aren't yet supported. - Android Emulators aren't yet supported. - Hardware acceleration isn't yet supported, including GPU and video decode. - ChromeVox is supported for the default Terminal app, but not yet for other Linux apps. " Taken from https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439 https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439

rstuart4133 3y ago

> the Linux on desktop community will be hurt as users would move to the Apple ecosystem, despite the non-free nature. That's an odd thing to say given given GNU/Linux runs on more architectures than any other OS. For example there is a Chromebook, which is (or is slated to become?) a skin over GNU/Linux. That includes using Wayland. If you want access to the full GNU/Linux stack, Chromebook's provide Crostini. Your point about Apple pulling off a step change with the M series is correct of course, and Asahi Linux notwithstanding we don't have full access to it. But other hardware vendors see that as an opportunity - if they can produce an equivalent they can take advantage of the fact that Apple produces a premium product most of the world doesn't want to pay for. When they do, GNU/Linux users will be among the early adopters. It's difficult to see how be GNU/Linux could get left behind. AMD/Intel on the other hand are likely shitting themselves. They've now had years to catch up, but has been very little sign of it. That mountain of technical debt created by the necessity of backward compatibility is proving very hard to move. The are starting to look like dinosaurs that are pretty safe in their niche, but the world has moved on and that niche is shrinking.

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
> That's an odd thing to say given given GNU/Linux runs on more architectures than any other OS. So? Any other architecture that outperforms the M3 on both efficiency and power?
- rstuart4133 3y ago
  > So? Any other architecture that outperforms the M3 on both efficiency and power? No that I know of. But that wasn't disputing that. I was commenting on your speculation the open source community would flee to a closed source operating system because the M3 currently reins supreme. I doubt they will. I also doubt M gap will Apple's engineers created will be a long term thing.
pjmlp 3y ago
It is quite clear that many UNIX folks that only care about a POSIX like experience, have long migrated to OS X as their daily driver. Exactly because of this migration, did Microsoft see an business opportunity to come up with WSL, and be an alternative to Apple's offerings. Being one of those UNIX folks, that has long made use of Virtual Box and VMWare, instead of wasting time dual booting. Crostini is a good example of GNU/Linux desktop still not being there, and I quote, " - Cameras aren't yet supported. - Android devices are supported over USB, but other devices aren't yet supported. - Android Emulators aren't yet supported. - Hardware acceleration isn't yet supported, including GPU and video decode. - ChromeVox is supported for the default Terminal app, but not yet for other Linux apps. " Taken from https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439 https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439